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Old Jan 3, 2003, 12:15 PM   #11
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It's the reality of technology...for instance in 2006 if you live in North America your TV (and VCR) will be obsolete as the FCC pushes its weight around to get rid of the current analog signals in favour of digital ones at different frequencies, so that you have to go out and either buy a new TV for $200-$400 more than your current one with the same features, or $100-$200 for a set top box.

Some people call it improving TV, but I call it a con to jumpstart the US electronics industry to provide digital tuners and other equipment.
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Old Jan 3, 2003, 1:48 PM   #12
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In UK we have the same thing happening, the dependable analogue TV (we have sharper PAL system here), is being replaced by DIGITAL. To the uninitiated that could be like high quality CD audio. In reality, after the maximum number of channels is squeezed in and the lowest or statistical bit rate level is used, It's artefacts, blocks, artefacts and more artefacts - unless the pictures are stationary!

So don't get too enthusiastic about bigger wider TV screens guys. But then I thought you lucky people over there had HD TV, or was that Tokyo? Still on the cam front, I'm seriously looking to my future MPIX upgrades to give stunning near HD stills on wide 42" XGA plasma panels, no interlace, and fill the 16X9 aspect - rather than bigger print sizes.
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Old Jan 3, 2003, 5:28 PM   #13
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Go for it!

As long as your purse strings allow it, purchase whatever you want!

Do not waste minute one with a lament on "out-of-box-obsolescence".

Life is a gift, not a given. Celebrate the moments you have
and capture those you really like on "film".

As far as "obsolescence" goes....

My Epson went to a friend for spare parts for his.
My C200 went to a family member.

There you go...
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Old Jan 4, 2003, 12:42 AM   #14
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I disagree with the posts advocating buying one now, but not for reasons of out of the box obsoleteness. With the new X3 camera's that will be coming out soon coupled with higher resolutions that will be on the newer models, the older non-x3 camera's with 3-4 mp resolution will probably have a large price drop. Thus I must advocate that you wait and see, and when the price drops, pick up an out of date, feature rich camera cheap. That's what I am going to do anyway. As for digital tv, I hate att cable service, they say I have to upgrade to digital cable before I can get comedy central or history channel! Of course, since this is relatively new technology in the commercial sector, and with some previous issues with att, I doubt the reliability of it, and have no desire to pay the higher cable bill that I suspect is associated with it.
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Old Jan 4, 2003, 1:10 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardvark50
As for digital tv, I hate att cable service, they say I have to upgrade to digital cable before I can get comedy central or history channel!
I get HD thru Dish, 2 movie channels and a demo channel. Discovery comming soon. TV is a Toshiba 42H81. Older movies shown on HD channels show the lower quality of the the filming from that era. More recent are great. Do not know how many HD channels direct offers, believe the merger with dish has been blocked.
Camera model cycle seems to be about 10 months now, I would rather have a top of the line factory refurb with well proven reviews than what I could get new for same money. My HT reciever is a Harmon-Kardon 220, got it for $129 refurb with factory warrenty. Would hate to think what kind of junk reciever $129
buys.
I bought a AT&T rechargeable phone card at sams (3.47 a minute and no funny minutes ever missing), that all I will deal with them.
Gary
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Old Jan 4, 2003, 1:26 AM   #16
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The right time to buy is now, meaning: anytime.

Eg; I just bought a new 5.0MP camera, the picture quality it captures is no less than amazing. I will be happy with it for a few years. I also purchased a photo printer and the prints look every bit as good as the local photo labs. Until something looks exceptionally better on both fronts I'll stick with what I have, and what I can afford :-)

Technology whether it be cameras, computers etc. will always have something more advanced around the corner and prices will always drop...the question are:

1. will you really make use of it? eg: I know people with 2.5GHz systems you do nothing but chat and surf...its overkill and marketing claimed another victim.

2. will you keep waiting for "the next greatest thing"? Yes, X3 is out...big deal, while people wait for the lastest and greatest I'm having a blast with my 5.0MP capturing the moments Now!
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Old Jan 4, 2003, 7:51 AM   #17
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Quote:
I call it a con to jumpstart the US electronics industry to provide digital tuners and other equipment
This may be true, but if you look at the store shelf 95% of the stuffs (ie HD TV, Plasma are all imported) The FCC will never mandate an obsolescence clause in fact all new digital standards will have to support analogue. An example of this is the telephone line which still suport mechanical pulse dialing where 99% of all of today phones are digital touch tone... RCA is actually Thompson Electronics a european comglomerate, and the chipsets they used are either from ST Micro or Phillips two other huge european companies!

Quote:
In reality, after the maximum number of channels is squeezed in and the lowest or statistical bit rate level is used, It's artefacts, blocks, artefacts and more artefacts - unless the pictures are stationary!
Could it be that just like cameras the digital pictures are compressed/uncompressed (mpeg) during transmission (ie artifacts) and any noise pickup or introduced by the system will show up as blocks? Gary will see this most in bad weathers and voxmagna should observe this too with his DVB due to Bit Error Rate (BER)... One can at least fit two analogue channels in the spectrum of one digital channel so definetly there's more bandwithd allocated,

Quote:
My HT reciever is a Harmon-Kardon 220, got it for $129 refurb with factory warrenty. Would hate to think what kind of junk reciever $129 buys.
I'm sure no manufacturers can make money out of $100-$200 digital receivers. This industry is just like cell phones where the monthly subscription pay for the cost of the loss on the hardware which are mostly subsidized... and like the phones, people choose the digital route because of the extra features, signal (voice) quality, echo cancelling etc... Just like the sharper/larger images (with some artifacts, but no ghosting), Dolby digital surround sounds etc... afforded by digital TV. The problem is this is a cat and mouse game, and there are not enough demand for HD/digital hence there's not a lot of broadcasts to feed this tiny demand... It also cost more in equipment/programming, hence the broadcaster prefer more channels/cheaper analogue format... and more advertising revenue.

With regards to digicam, everyone should be happy to be able to get a good 3.3Mp at a bargain price (I paid $1200 for my CP990 back then), and I think that what most of anyone would ever need, and give perfect 8x10... Does everyone need a 2G+ PC? It's a nice to have and will depreciate much faster.
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Old Jan 4, 2003, 8:12 AM   #18
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Quote:
Could it be that just like cameras the digital pictures are compressed/uncompressed (mpeg) during transmission (ie artifacts) and any noise pickup or introduced by the system will show up as blocks? Gary will see this most in bad weathers and voxmagna should observe this too with his DVB... One can at least fit two analogue channels in the spectrum of one digital channel so definetly there's more bandwithd allocated,
It's not more bandwidth I want, its better picture quality from using digital compression not worse i.e more bitrate per channel/less channels/higher quality (like wot leaves the studio)/ and fewer intermittent temporal artefacts, when the best detailed pics come along and compression falls over!

If you look at your cams JPEG compression factor, it will vary from cam to cam. Each manufacturer works on the basis of how much distortion the consumer will notice, when the bottom line is to spec the most pics on the media.

Same with digital TV. Given a lump of bandwidth, is it 4, 8 or 10 digital services? If you're an operator running subscription or ad supported services, what determines how many services? - as many as you can fit in before viewers start to notice distortions! - How close are you sitting? How big is your screen?

So digital TV quality becomes fitness of purpose for the market place, delivered at economic cost, there's no WOW factor.
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Old Jan 4, 2003, 8:21 AM   #19
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Quote:
delivered at economic cost
I agree... It goes both way, the consumer has to pay more as well for the settop to decode the larger amount of data that's beamed down (higher bitrate/turbo coding etc...) hence even fewer users...
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Old Jan 4, 2003, 8:41 AM   #20
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It'll be like that soon with H26L. MPEG4 etc. Fair pics at 2Mbit/s - but we need Athlons (sorry Intel converts) to get the pics on our TV's!
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