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Old Oct 6, 2005, 1:27 PM   #1
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hello I am a newbe
but I got some question about printing
I bought a photosmart 1000 4 years ago.. i think and was not happy with the
picture quality it printed
then I bought a photosmart 7960.. but still not happy with the result..
then two days ago.. I bought a R200 by epson.. and STILL NOT HAPPY with the
result... I am thinking am I doing anything wrong?
all the picture I printed got the same problem
that I can see many many dots...
I am thinking if it is possible my camera
I am using the nikon D70s...
and thinking to start using RAW to print it..
I am not sure if I sound stupid right now
cause I am a NEWBE!:?
I am not even sure if I am asking this question in the right forum or not
please refresh my memory
thanks


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Old Oct 6, 2005, 3:26 PM   #2
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Are you printing at the highest quality? IF so there should be about 600 'dots' per inch. This means that in a square inch there should be around 360,000 dots. I doubt you'd be able to see them unless you are looking at the print with a magnifinin glass.

I also doubt it is your camera. How noticable are the dots? are they as small as I mentioned above?
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Old Oct 6, 2005, 3:49 PM   #3
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Have you got the camera set to it's highest resolution?

Are you resizing or resampling the photos in some manner before printing? If you're using an editor, uncheck any resize/resample boxes when cropping; and don't crop too much or you won't have enough left over.

A common problem is when users try to send photos that don't have high enough resolution to their printer.

You can have the highest resolution printer around, but if it's faithfully reproducing the image you sendto it, and there are not enough pixels in it to adequately cover a page,you can get grainy, pixelatedprints.

If the pixel density of the image isn't high enough, then youwill begin to see problems (for example, separate pixels showing up since there are not enough of them to cover the area you are trying to print).

Some printers may try to "help out" by interpolating a lower resolution back up again (depending on the printer drivers). But, you still need a high enough resolution image to begin with for many subject types (interpolation can't work miracles if there are not enough pixels to represent the subject detail needed to begin with).

A "rule of thumb" for good quality prints is to make sure you've got at least 150 pixels per inchbeing sent to the printer for the desired print size. For example, an 8x10" print would need an image of 1200x1500 pixels for 150 pixels per inch:

1200 pixels/8 inches = 150 pixels per inch (PPI); *or* 1500 pixels/10 inches = 150 pixels per inch.

This is only a rule of thumb, since subject type and viewing distance come into play. But, 2 Megapixels is usually the minimum you'll want for an 8x10" print (with 3 or more being better on most printers). Smaller size will require less.

It doesn't hurt to send more than you need with most printers. But, when you send less than needed, you can get the types of problems you're describing.

What editing and printing software are you using?

Are you printing using high quality photo paper, or trying to print on plain paper. Plain paper isn't going to "cut it" for photos, as most printers are not going to print at their better dpi settings using anything except for photo paper, even if you select their best quality modes.



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Old Oct 6, 2005, 4:09 PM   #4
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P.S.

If you have a sample image that you've been trying to print with this problem, that may help determine what is wrong, too.

We have a limit on the size image that can be posted in the forums here though.

So, if you've got a place to post an image online (exactly as you're sending it to the printer, with no other modifications), that would help.

If you don't have any space with your ISP or others to store an image online, I'd suggest opening an account with someone like http://www.pbase.com

Their trial accounts allow 10mb of disk space (plenty for a problem photo or two). Then, just post the link you see in the address bar in this forum thread so we can go to it and check it for any obvious problems.

Many other sites may require you to downsize your images (or don't keep them intact in some way). So, it would be better to have a site that isn't going to restrict you in some manner from posting the exact image you are sending to your printer (after any modifcations you've performed on it).

You may want to post a copy of the image as it came from the camera (before any editing), too -- along with one that you tried to send it to the printer.




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Old Oct 6, 2005, 5:17 PM   #5
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Quote:
the program I use to print out my pic is what EPSON gives me
Quote:
I was trying to print the pic 8.5X11 using the hp prem matt paper..
u think using the different brand paper with different brand printer
causes this?
Moderator note:

This post was modified by accident, removing the information typed regarding using a 6 Megapixel imagewith fine quality, unedited before trying to print it.




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Old Oct 6, 2005, 5:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
the program I use to print out my pic is what EPSON gives me
Well, I used to use Epson Film Factory for printing, and it worked fine using other printers, too. I don't know what Epson is shipping with their printers nowadays. But, it's probably fine.

Quote:
I was trying to print the pic 8.5X11 using the hp prem matt paper..
u think using the different brand paper with different brand printer
causes this?

Yes, paper type can make a big difference.Paper is usually optimized for a given printer type. You see differences in the amount of absorbancy a paper has, ink dry time between pages needed, based on the ink type used, amount of ink the printer is laying down on the paper and other variables.

Now, that might not be the problem. It's just a potential area to look at for a problem.

Are you sure you don't have any clogged nozzles anywhere? Have you aligned the printer and made sure it's working with the manufacturer's test patterns?

You'll see a uitilities menu somewhere to do that kind of thing -- perhaps even under an advanced tab in your printer driver menu when you print, or when clicking properties on a printer.

P.S. --

You'll see a maintenance tab in your printer preferences box to perform a nozzle check to make sure you don't have any clogged nozzles (you'll need to run a cleaning cycle if you do). You'll also see a print head alignmentchoice.

See page 2 of our Epson R300M Review to see what this maintenance tab looks like. Your r200 should be similar.

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Old Oct 6, 2005, 7:24 PM   #7
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hello jimc
thanks for your reply
my printing problem is not nozzle problem
I did those test.. and they are good
but I am starting to think
if it is the camera problem
using not enough pixel.. since it is 3008X2000 that mean I am able to print at least
20X13 inches picture
and u said at least 150pi should be a good quality
since it is a least..
people would want more than 150 to have the best quality
and nelmr said the printer can print out 600 pi at it highest setting
so does that means...my camera can not handle the job
since u need 6000X4800 camera image to print a 10X8 size picture
if that so..
my camera sux! ~>_<~
and the dots I am talking about is like
pixel dots... which make the color of the shadows very not natural
I even see this when putting this picture as my desktop background
can you see my picture? I sent earlier?
the picture is 2.5 mb




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Old Oct 6, 2005, 7:32 PM   #8
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bananastylez wrote:
Quote:
and the dots I am talking about is like
pixel dots... which make the color of the shadows very not natural
I even see this when putting this picture as my desktop background
can you see my picture? I sent earlier?
the picture is 2.5 mb
No, you don't need a camera that can handle 600 pixels per inch. That's different. The printer needs to print at a given dpi in order to faithfully reproduce your pixels (it's going to be printing more than one dot to get the color combinations via dithering to represent them).

But, you really want a lot more than 600 dpi, too. Your printer probably prints at a much higher dpi than that in it's highest quality mode.

Let's take a look ata problem phototo see what's wrong. It sounds like noise to me (multi-colored dots in the image that are similar to film grain) -- probably because your ISO speed is set too high. You won't normally see that kind of thing in prints unless it's farily high. But, if you can see it in reduced size images on screen, then yes, your printer is just faithfully reproducing it. ;-)

How did you send the image? Via a link to somewhere? We can't handle a 2.5mb filesize here (which is why you'll need to post it on a web site and give us a link to it).




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Old Oct 6, 2005, 10:57 PM   #9
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JimC!!!
u mean iso too high will cause that problem?!?!
:?
oh my gosh
because I think my ISO was 1600!!!
:O
I really want to send you the file
but I don't know how to put it in the website
are there anyway I can send it to you by email
or anything so u can check it out for me
and if iso is the problem
what is the point of having a 1600 iso?!/
because it is horrible!!
thanks for you help! :-)
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Old Oct 6, 2005, 11:22 PM   #10
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bananastylez wrote:
Quote:
JimC!!!
u mean iso too high will cause that problem?!?!
:?
oh my gosh
because I think my ISO was 1600!!!
:O
I really want to send you the file
but I don't know how to put it in the website
are there anyway I can send it to you by email
or anything so u can check it out for me
and if iso is the problem
what is the point of having a 1600 iso?!/
because it is horrible!!
thanks for you help! :-)
If you look at the top of your screen, you'll see a note that you have new messages. I sent you a PM a while ago explaining how you could send me the image.

It's quite simple.. you just go to http://www.yousendit.com and you'll see a place to enter the e-mail address you want to send a file to. Enter the e-mail address I gave you in the PM. You'll see a browse button on the web page to select the file you want to send. It works just like browing for any other file on your PC.

But, it sounds like we know what the problem is (send the image anyway and lets take a look at it). ISO 1600 is useful because it allows much faster shutter speeds. Each time you double the ISO speed, the camera can use shutter speeds twice as fast for the same lighting condtions and aeprture. For example, you'd get shutter speeds 16 times as fast as you would at ISO 100 in low light with the same lens settings otherwise if you use ISO 1600.

This can be helpful shooting in low light conditions (just as when you buy higher speed film). But, you also have more noise (just like you have more grain with higher speed film). Do you buy ISO 100 film, or ISO 1600 film?. I actually do buy ISO 1600 from time to time. But, the results can leave a lot to be desired. :-)

Noise is also worse in underexposed area of an image.

It's often better to have some grain/noise in an image, versus motion blur from camera shake or subject movement. But, you don't want to use ISO speeds any higher than necessary. If there are other alternatives (longer shutter speeds, larger apertures) you want to use those instead, since noise can be objectionable (depending on the print and viewing sizes needed)

One of the strong points of a DSLR model like your D70 is it's ability to shoot at higher ISO speeds. Most non-DSLR models have objectionable noise at much over their lowest settings (ISO 50 -200 is about the useful limit for many of them, with ISO 400 "pushing it" from a noise perspective).

Send me the image and I'll take a look (and then post a copy of it in this thread with some suggestions on how to shoot it differently, unless ISO 1600 was really needed for it). You may need to get a brighter lens for conditions that warrant faster shutter speeds in low light, too.

You probably don't need to shoot at ISO 1600 for most photos, though (most users don't for most).

Also, there are ways to reduce the appearance of noise later using software when you do need to shoot that way. One good product is Noiseware. They have a free community edition that works well, too.


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