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Old Dec 17, 2005, 12:10 PM   #1
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From what i make out in various chains, looks like we are all looking for the new generation of mini camcorders like SANYO XACTI VPC-C6 !! Albeit, with better features like better low light results or low noise, good image stabilisation - both optical and digital, enlarged memory,better flash range, better and bigger zoom features,etc,etc. !

Why not write in with your choice and researched products in this category having all these features and more ! Not to forget the size, maybe shirt pocket should be the criteria ?!!

It would make interesting reading to many in all the forum chains, not only here at Steve's, but in the camcorder research in general. You never know, people from all over could send in their suggestions and I am sure, in the long run, we will all benefit from this new chain !:idea:

So guys, lets get going and CONTRIBUTE ....
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Old Dec 18, 2005, 7:43 AM   #2
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The Sanyo Xacti VPc-C6 you refer to, is NOT a miniDV camcorder. It captures video as MPEG4, a format akin to VHS in quality.

This is a toy for the yuppie gadget freaks, not for someone who is serious about taking video.

Declan
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Old Dec 18, 2005, 11:21 AM   #3
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amazingthailand wrote:
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[...]MPEG4, a format akin to VHS in quality.[...]
Not considering the camera, clearly you have little to no experience with MPEG-4 on your PC to make that statement. The MPEG-4 format by far exceeds DVD quality at DVD bit rates.

I do agree that these cameras cannot be compared to DV camcorders. They have not yet achieved, in real-time, satisfactory movie encoding results to replace camcorders. This will undoubtedly change in the coming years as processing power increases and they make their way to H.264 (MPEG-4 AVC) encoding. cabrino, the Hybrid forum has been keeping tabs on these up and coming cameras for a while now.
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Old Dec 18, 2005, 6:05 PM   #4
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Caelum wrote:
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Not considering the camera, clearly you have little to no experience with MPEG-4 on your PC to make that statement.* The MPEG-4 format by far exceeds DVD quality at DVD bit rates.
Actually I do have quite a bit of experience viewing MPEG4 video and that is why I have such an intense dislike of the format. What I have seen was inferior to bad VHS.

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Old Dec 18, 2005, 11:26 PM   #5
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amazingthailand wrote:
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Actually I do have quite a bit of experience viewing MPEG4 video and that is why I have such an intense dislike of the format. What I have seen was inferior to bad VHS.
Did you encode it? If not, whodid,with whatsoftwareand at what bit-rate, using multi-pass? Which MPEG-4 codec(s) didyou use? (Xvid, Divx, 3vix, FFMpeg, Nero Digital (ASP or AVC), etc.?)

I'm sorry to say but if you think MPEG-4 provides inferior to bad VHS video quality, then it's very clear you have little to no experience with MPEG-4 and know nothing about it. For you to make that generalized statementit's as if someone saw a badly encoded,low bit rate MPEG-2 stream and concluded that MPEG-2 is worse than badVHS (MPEG-2is the DVD standard). I've re-encodedDVDsinto MPEG-4 using a small fraction ofthe original bit-rate whilepreserving fullvideo quality, this is possible because MPEG-4 issignificantly improved over MPEG-2. I hate to announce this to you, since you dislike MPEG-4 so much, but MPEG-4 AVC is the new standard for high definition video on both HD DVD and Blu-Ray discs, European digital broadcasts, and is being adopted by most major satelliteproviders to deliver HD as well as non-HD content. Microsoft's own Windows Media Video for HD was based on their MPEG-4 technology work. MPEG-4 iswhat is enabling high definition video of the future. It is also very scaleable and is being adopted by cell phone companies to provide the highest quality videoat the lowest possible bit rate. If you have personally only seen poorly encoded MPEG-4, that is hardly grounds to dismiss the entire format.
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Old Dec 19, 2005, 9:09 AM   #6
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Then I feel that the future of digital video is doomed.
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