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Old Mar 1, 2006, 9:33 AM   #11
DBB
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eric s wrote:
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I'm with amazingthailand here. Foveon has to step up and make a new sensor capable of competing with where the market has gone. I'd like them to succeed. I really would. I know some people who really like the output of that sensor, and they know what they are talking about.

As a photographer, I don't care if the cameras that use a Foveon sensor can't produce a jpg. I don't care if the sensor is difficult to engineer compared to other sensors. I don't care if it takes a lot of computing power to produce the image from the RAW. (As an engineer by training, I do care about those things... but only at an intelectual level.)

I care about quality of output image and usability of the camera. And the quality of the image from a Foveon sensor based camera is quite good, from all I've seen. This is why I want them to succeed. Competition in the market is a very good thing, and JFET seems to have failed in its current incarnation.

So either Nikon needs to improve its JFET design, Foveon needs to improve its design or something new needs to appear. That will spur new growth in the market of sensors and everyone will benefit.

Eric
Well, I disagree with Amazing:blah:

On the other hand, I agree that the Sigma cameras are NOT competitive with todays batch of dSLR's. There's a reason after all why my camera is a D2x...:lol:

The big players in the camera market have invested in the Bayer chip, and they are not about to make the designers of the foveon rich.

Nor is this an academic dispute about "my sensor is better than yours." We are after all discussing facts.

Kassandro states that the Foveon is inhernently flawed and that it's so called advantages are trivial.

Indeed, he feels that information I provided is not only innacurate but false. I find comments like that annoying.

I make no claims of being a techie. I do however claim to be able to read and write...

And for some reason I take the word of Mr Askey of DP Review over his....

"If you build a better mouse trap," you better make sure you have a big budget to sell it to people otherwise they will stick with the old one...

This thread started with people wondering about what happened to the Foveon, why didn't it catch on, and where will it go.

I've answered all three questions.

The only one I haven't touched on is whether it will succed. If the new Sigma is 6 or 8 megs, it will blow the existing compitition out of the water.

Dave
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Old Mar 1, 2006, 9:46 AM   #12
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Something I noticed being discussed elsewhere recently that reminds some of Foveon technology.... 3 Patent Applications from Fuji related to new sensor designs (2 in September 2005, 1 in February 2006):

Patent Application Number 20050205958

Patent Application Number 20050206759

Patent Application Number 20060023094

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Old Mar 1, 2006, 3:34 PM   #13
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DBB, I'm not sure how your comments don't match with Amazing's.

You believe the tech is good (and neither he nor I are disputing that) and he (and I) want to see a new camera based on that tech that properly competes with the Bayer's of the world. And we want it soon.

You seem to want that too.

Seems to me, you generally agree with both of us. (Just not kassandro)

Eric
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Old Mar 1, 2006, 3:57 PM   #14
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I would also love Foveon to succeed (a local bay area company). When Carver Mead started the company, I had very high hopes but sometime even if you have right chips but nobody to make hardware based on your chip, it can get very tough for the chip company. Last I checked about 6 months ago, Federico Faggin (first Intel processor) had become the CEO. Wish they come out with something new.


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Old Mar 1, 2006, 4:58 PM   #15
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eric s wrote:
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DBB, I'm not sure how your comments don't match with Amazing's.

You believe the tech is good (and neither he nor I are disputing that) and he (and I) want to see a new camera based on that tech that properly competes with the Bayer's of the world. And we want it soon.

You seem to want that too.

Seems to me, you generally agree with both of us. (Just not kassandro)

Eric
I was born to be picky!!!! :lol:

I just obected to his remark that this is a game of "my sensor is better then your sensor," as if to say there is no objective information around.

And of course, I'm NOT a technie, so I can't leap onto a high horse and just condemn the opposition...:G

Dave
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Old Mar 20, 2006, 3:47 PM   #16
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JimC wrote:
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Something I noticed being discussed elsewhere recently that reminds some of Foveon technology.... 3 Patent Applications from Fuji related to new sensor designs (2 in September 2005, 1 in February 2006):

Patent Application Number 20050205958

Patent Application Number 20050206759

Patent Application Number 20060023094

Well, that didn't take long. See the breaking news page:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/digin...ml#fuji_sensor


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Old Mar 20, 2006, 4:19 PM   #17
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Regarding sensor resolutions http://www.digitalcamerainfo.com/uses imatest to obtain the true MP values of a camera.

For example my Fuji S5100 has a 3.87MP image but because of JPEG, lens, and sensor it only uses the equivlence of2.75 MP (71% of the resolution) to generate it's ouput image (which of course is at the 3.87MP size).

I realize that JPEG and the Lens affect this greatly but I assume the sensor with it's demosaicing plays a part too.

I believe that there are CCD and CMOS sensors with 90% resolution on the site (Fuji F10 and Canon 350d come to mind).

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Old Mar 20, 2006, 8:49 PM   #18
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JimC,
That is certainly an interestin gpress release. It certainly sounds like something that is (when looked at from afar) very similar to the concept behind the Foveon sensor.

Eric
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Old Mar 21, 2006, 4:04 AM   #19
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The difference is that Fuji will actually get this new sensor to market and in p&s AND dSLR cameras and probably at high pixel counts too.

If they get it right it could mean syonara to Foveon.
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