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Old May 22, 2003, 10:40 PM   #1
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Default schizophrenic camera buyer needs help! 10d, 7hi, or S602Z?

I know you've all read these types of messages a thousand times before, but I need help! I've read so much that I've become utterly incapable of making a decision.....

For the last two years I've been using a 2.1 mp Canon digital Elph S110, and I've really enjoyed it. I'm sure I've taken thousands of photos with this camera! I can't say enough good things about it, even with its limitations. Partly, it's been fun because of the "wow" factor, even now, from people who are amazed at the size of the thing and its nifty features. I've used the camera for mostly outdoor shots (I haven't had great results with indoor photography with this cam), and general snapshots. As much as I love it, the camera's limitations have been a source of frustration - shutter lag, small resolution, small zoom. I take a lot of pictures of horses (conformation and at horse shows - essentially sports photography), and the shutter lag and puny zoom are really tough to compensate for. I haven't been printing photos with this camera (although I plan to with the new camera), and I post a lot of photos to the web. I'll be keeping my Elph! This little baby fits anywhere I want to stash her! But it's time to upgrade.

One of the features of the Elph that I've been surprised that I like so much is the movie mode, even as limited as it is in this little camera. I take riding lessons, and the movie mode is a great learning tool! While it's not an essential feature, it's something that I've really enjoyed.

I'd like something with a higher mp rating (for larger prints and more cropping flexibility), a large zoom, a shorter shutter lag, fast focusing. Also, I've never owned an SLR, but I'd like to learn more about "real" photography - I look forward to playing with a more complicated camera! I've got Photoshop, and have a lot of fun manipulating my photos on the computer. I don't want a film camera...buying and developing film gets to be a huge expense after a while.

Here are the cameras I'm considering:

Canon EOS-10D Digital SLR
Minolta DiMage 7hi
Fujifilm FinePix S602 Zoom

I know the 10D is a great camera, but it's pricey for me, considering the $1500 + lens, memory, extra battery, etc. Also, I think I like the smaller size of the "prosumer" models - I suspect I'd get more use out of a smaller camera, because I'd be more apt to keep it with more of the time. And there's no movie mode (I know, I know...that may be a silly complaint, but it's a fun feature!) I'm thinking that camera might be more than I really want, as exciting as it is. The specs look great! and I expect that the image quality would be superior, but I think it might be more camera than I need. I guess I'm just looking for confirmation from you experts out there.... My credit card will accommodate this purchase, heh heh, but I'm just not sure.

The wide angle/powerful zoom lens on the Minolta DiMage 7hi is very attractive, as is its 5 mp rating. Also, according to everything I've read, this camera appears to be the fastest of its type. (Reviews of the 5700 seem to indicate that it's quite a bit slower - do you all agree?... and it does not have a 28 mm eq. wide angle....) Are the pictures taken from this camera really noisy? I've read conflicting reports. This is the camera that I'm really leaning towards, and would love to hear your input. It has a one-minute movie mode, but it's not spec'd out as well as the S602 Zoom.....

I have a friend who just bought the S602 Zoom, and he really likes it a lot. I'm concerned about the 3 mp rating, but this camera seems to have a great feature set and reviews indicate that it has really good image quality. The movie mode (640x480, 30 fps, time limited only by memory) is pretty spiffy, too. And the price is certainly attractive, compared to the 10d and 7hi. But it only has a 35mm vs. the 28 mm wide end of the 7hi lens, although it's a nice little zoom lens, of course. Any thoughts on this camera, in comparison to the 7hi? Is Fujifilm gonna make a newer version of this camera with a higher resolution?

I know it sounds like I'm comparing apples and oranges here, but I'm trying to figure out what will really make me happy, vs. what sounds the coolest, if you know what I mean. I plan to make this purchase in the beginning of July. Let me know if there's some other camera you think I should be looking at.

also...as and aside, do you all calibrate your monitors? Any tips on that? This is something I've read about since I've been researching cameras, and I'd like to hear your ideas.

Thanks so much for your help!
Kristine
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Old May 23, 2003, 12:09 AM   #2
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As much as i don't trust teh brand .. the minolta is the way to go ... 28mm is invaluable.

it is bulky though.
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Old May 23, 2003, 6:00 AM   #3
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It's less bulky than the 10D though, trust me! Beside the D7's is smaller than the s602 if you don't include the tulip shade... 8)
http://www.stevesforums.com/phpBB2/v...196&highlight=

Actually the s602 is a really nice camera too if you don't mind the 3Mp (it's actually slightly more with interpolation). My neighbor has one and its EVF is kind of brighter, but then you don't have all the manual features of the D7's EVF. It just depends on your budget and if the features set are worth paying for or not, ie do you need raw? Otherwise the s602 is fine, and it does have the nice movie feature with no time limit that you like.

Quote:
also...as and aside, do you all calibrate your monitors? Any tips on that? This is something I've read about since I've been researching cameras, and I'd like to hear your ideas.
I use the Spyder from Colorvision quite inexpensive... I have given up on eyeballing! How do you know if it's right? (ie what looks pleasing to me is actually totally off on someone else monitor!) :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Old May 23, 2003, 9:08 AM   #4
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Here is a link to the deep end of color management. Watch out for the sharks and take a deep breath before going. Most of what they talk about is way more advanced than most of us care... but it's informative and useful to read it and really see/learn all the nuances. When it really matters (i.e. selling your own pictures for a living) there is a lot of things you have to/should do.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/ubbthrea...amp;Board=UBB3
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Old May 23, 2003, 9:25 AM   #5
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FYI http://www.colorvision.com/store/monitor_dp.shtml
and coming up http://www.colorvision.com/store/print_dp.shtml
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Old May 23, 2003, 11:36 AM   #6
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xena45

Sounds like our digital development has taken similar paths. My Olympus c-2020 has and will continue to be a good friend when size is most important.

Having just bought both the 7Hi and 10D here are my thoughts.

7Hi - noise issue we've all heard isn't an issue to me nor can I really ID it's. Maybe it's my experience level or bad eye sight but it's really a non issue for me. Don't use movie mode but the Minlota is only one of the two that will fill that request. Like any camera there is a learning curve and IMHO the 7Hi takes a little time to get good at. Controls take some getting used to and aren't always intuitive. LCD isn't as bright as the Nikon 5700 and not close to the 10D. It's an issue in daylight but that's when you'll be looking thought the EVF. With the 10D you only use the EVF which may take some getting used to from your Elph. This transition took me a while. To me this camera is all about focal lenght. 28 - 200 is invaluable and one of the best reasons to buy this unit. 4 AA Ni-MH batteries are easy to come by and give decent life. Especially since the zoom is manual and the LCD can switch automatically to EVF when you put your eye to the cup so both aren't in use at the same time. The Sanyo charger is really slick and doesn't need a cord. Using the flash is a manual thing in that you have to lift it up to activate. I like that since you control when it's in use.

The 7Hi is a great balance between size and function. Recent price drop isn't bad either to make it more competitive against the 5700. I found an M Rock bag that's not much bigger than the small Tamrac which held the C-2020. It fits in sideways nicely so the lense is at the top. You can put the lense shade on backwards to keep it with the camera in a smaller bag. I have a reasonable amount of use with this camera over the last few months. If you'd like to see some shots I'll forward a link to the albums on Ofoto.

One thing to consider is a fast CF card. If you read in the memory card forum I've recently crashed a CF card in the 7Hi. Was my fault for using low batteries or turning off while camera was writing. Coming from your Elph you'll notice the slow speed with cheap CF.

New to the 10D it's huge (especially with f2.8 lenses). I'm not experienced enough yet to comment much other than to say it's a whole lot of camera and requires a different mind set. Small camera bags are out so back-pack or other larger cases required. Love the Canon controls and menus. They're really good at it. LCD is awesome and very bright but you only use it to view menu or check the shot afterwards. If you do lots of flash with f2.8 the lense it creates a shadow due to the size. You'll need a Speedlight.

Can't wait to start using the 10D and getting more shutter time.

As you can the difference between these two cameras is significant. While the pixel rating isn't much size certainly is. IMHO from what you've told us the 7Hi would be a good bet. You'll love the lense and it's a logical step from your beloved Elph.
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Old May 23, 2003, 2:32 PM   #7
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Default Re: schizophrenic camera buyer needs help! 10d, 7hi, or S602

Quote:
Originally Posted by xena45
also...as and aside, do you all calibrate your monitors? Any tips on that? This is something I've read about since I've been researching cameras, and I'd like to hear your ideas.
What do you mean by this?
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Old May 23, 2003, 7:02 PM   #8
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Default Re: schizophrenic camera buyer needs help! 10d, 7hi, or S602

Quote:
Originally Posted by xena45
also...as and aside, do you all calibrate your monitors? Any tips on that? This is something I've read about since I've been researching cameras, and I'd like to hear your ideas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by folmonty
What do you mean by this?
Monitors and printers use different methods of creating colours...monitors use additive (red+green+blue=white) and printers use subtractive (cyan+magenta+yellow=black). Because of this difference, what you see on screen doesn't match what the printer prints out....calibrating trys to get them close. There are various ways of accomplishing this, one of which is a device that you attach to one small corner of your monitor and it sees what the current colour temperature is and adjusts the colours of the monitor accordingly.

You can get colour profiles for monitors and printers to try and match, but the colours can change with temperature (it takes time for monitors to warm up)...of course I'm talking about CRTs here; serious photo editors don't use LCD!
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Old May 23, 2003, 7:22 PM   #9
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Default Re: schizophrenic camera buyer needs help! 10d, 7hi, or S602

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike_PEAT
Quote:
Originally Posted by xena45
also...as and aside, do you all calibrate your monitors? Any tips on that? This is something I've read about since I've been researching cameras, and I'd like to hear your ideas.
Quote:
Originally Posted by folmonty
What do you mean by this?

You can get colour profiles for monitors and printers to try and match, but the colours can change with temperature (it takes time for monitors to warm up)...of course I'm talking about CRTs here; serious photo editors don't use LCD!
I see what you're saying. Didn't know LCD's wern't as accurate? My viewsonic came with some sort of color correction software but I've not messed with it since setting it up. Good thing thing I'm an amature so it won't cost me more $.
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Old May 24, 2003, 2:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by folmonty
I see what you're saying. Didn't know LCD's wern't as accurate? My viewsonic came with some sort of color correction software but I've not messed with it since setting it up. Good thing thing I'm an amature so it won't cost me more $.
LCD monitors are too bright, and the colours too saturated. Also many aren't uniformly lit (the top and bottom have patches of light-dark-light-dark...).

Also LCDs have limited resolutions...sometimes I will change the resolution of my monitor depending on the size of the photo I'm working with.

Also with monitors there are less chance of problems...I've seen many LCDs a year or two old with glitches, stuck or dead pixels...I used my last CRT monitor for 7 years.
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