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Old Mar 28, 2010, 7:25 AM   #131
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You posted this or a similar example before, and I couldn't match your version. But the statment you made was that dedicated software will always make things better, and would do that no matter what image was presented. This indoor shot of glass is hardly a fair test of that premise.

In other words, this example proves your premise that such dedicated software can produce a better image then without it in the proper situation - But that's no longer in dispute.

Dave

Last edited by Chato; Mar 28, 2010 at 7:32 AM. Reason: added a point
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Old Mar 28, 2010, 7:51 AM   #132
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I think the window is a fair test. I didnt include the rest of the room. Its only a lit window. I wouldnt think of it as a 4 shot HDR. Inside, outside, day or night, wherever there is something lit well and lit poorly I believe Photomatix will always improve it to some degree over any single jpeg.
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Old Mar 28, 2010, 8:33 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bynx View Post
I think the window is a fair test. I didnt include the rest of the room. Its only a lit window. I wouldnt think of it as a 4 shot HDR. Inside, outside, day or night, wherever there is something lit well and lit poorly I believe Photomatix will always improve it to some degree over any single jpeg.
Here is your basic premise:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bynx View Post
When using multiple jpeg files, I believe HDR will always improve them, if that is the aim of the operator. This does not include moving vegetation or other objects that cause double images.
I will set my camera to JPEG fine, go out with a tripod, and bracket some shots. I will then sit down at the same spot, think things through, set the camera for optimal proformance and take one additional shot. I wil post all four and provide a link. You might win your premise, because I almost never shoot JPEG - Everything I shoot is in RAW, and RAW is what I had in mind with my statement. My little Duck example was shot in RAW.

(I've tested my Sigma in JPEG fine, and it does a great job)

Now, I can only shoot three images in burst mode, what degree of difference do you want? I can go up to 3 stops in 1/3 increments.

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Old Mar 28, 2010, 10:51 AM   #134
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I would assume that the middle shot would be the optimal shot and any others would be the bracketing shots for highlight and shadow. Shooting for HDR isnt just any 3 or 4 shots. They are all based around the optimal shot. So you only have to show 3 shots. About 2 fstops apart. Im not backtracking, but I will agree that a single Raw file is better than any single jpeg file.
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Old Mar 28, 2010, 11:24 AM   #135
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Quote:
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I would assume that the middle shot would be the optimal shot and any others would be the bracketing shots for highlight and shadow. Shooting for HDR isnt just any 3 or 4 shots. They are all based around the optimal shot. So you only have to show 3 shots. About 2 fstops apart. Im not backtracking, but I will agree that a single Raw file is better than any single jpeg file.
Bwahahahahahaha!

Ok, got that out of my system...

Too lazy to leave my apartment, I shot these from my window, ISO 50...

Used a timer, even though the Sigma has no mirror slap. Overcast, grey day.

And the only "cheating" I'm going to do is to wait for you to post first - I've already completed my version!

_SDI6273.JPG (JPEG Image, 2640x1760 pixels) - Scaled (36%)

_SDI6274.JPG (JPEG Image, 2640x1760 pixels) - Scaled (36%)

_SDI6275.JPG (JPEG Image, 2640x1760 pixels) - Scaled (36%)

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Old Mar 28, 2010, 11:38 AM   #136
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Let me clarify some ground rules, although you're more than welcome to make other suggestions.

I'm going to post a thumbnail of the entire image at 800 pixels wide

I'm going to post a 100 percent crop of the extreme lower left corner at 797 pixels wide, and 533 high (Err, I wont quibble over the exact measurement - But heck, I already made the crop)

Both will be saved at Photoshop 6

Any alterations you suggest are welcome...

(And I am really curious to see what happens - In fact, I'm going to run this through Photomatrix right now!)

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Old Mar 28, 2010, 11:49 AM   #137
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You conveniently pick a shot that has neither any highlights or shadows. So there is nothing that would benefit from being an HDR. So we shall see if the HDR is any better than your middle shot. By the way, it would be better to submit the pic after the lights went on and before it got really dark out. Here is my 100% size as bottom left corner 800 pixel by 800 pixel.
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Last edited by Bynx; Mar 28, 2010 at 12:14 PM.
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Old Mar 28, 2010, 11:54 AM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bynx View Post
You conveniently pick a shot that has neither any highlights or shadows. So there is nothing that would benefit from being an HDR. So we shall see if the HDR is any better than your middle shot.
But Bynx, I never claimed that HDR isn't a good technique. You bet I choose a shot that is done in decent light. If you wanted an unfair test, you already picked one.

And besides, I've always shot RAW, never JPEG - As far as I'm concerned Any JPEG is not a fair test...

Now you don't shoot RAW, but RAW is so embedded into my photography that I don't even think in terms of JPEG. Raw, raw, and more raw!

Dave

Edited in:

Here's your quote again:

Quote:
When using multiple jpeg files, I believe HDR will always improve them, if that is the aim of the operator. This does not include moving vegetation or other objects that cause double images.
How then is this test unfair? This is a multiple JPEG series. It is not a scene that my camera cannot capture - Photomatrix should improve the image? Right?

I have already conceded (about three months ago, if I recall) that a scene with greater range then the camera can capture, HDR will improve the image. So?

Dave

Last edited by Chato; Mar 28, 2010 at 12:07 PM.
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Old Mar 28, 2010, 12:20 PM   #139
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From my point of view, the image was improved. There is more pop giving a 3D look to an anotherwise good shot. The original is kinda flat and greyish looking. All of which Im sure could be improved with Photoshop.
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Old Mar 28, 2010, 1:30 PM   #140
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Quote:
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From my point of view, the image was improved. There is more pop giving a 3D look to an anotherwise good shot. The original is kinda flat and greyish looking. All of which Im sure could be improved with Photoshop.
Well yes, it was improved. Not being allowed to do post processing isn't part of the deal. And for that matter, you're HDR version can have additional post processing.

Here's my version post processed - Aside from contrast changes, not much to choose. I believe my version has a touch more detail:



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