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fishycomics Oct 26, 2009 4:06 AM

thank you jrstinfish...

so it is said any Picture with a opposite color of white/black will produce the grain.
i wonder again how highly Tweaked they have the firmware up, to cause this, I am sure it can be a number of issues, but I am no pro. I rather just have video, and stillsI can capture in clearity, that looks the best. WE ALL DO!
I cannot agree mor, to recommend a camcorder, one must compare for themselves if iti s right for them or not. Ifone keeps the purchasing of and exchanging over and over, then we'll see this on woot, and 1saleaday for a extremely low price, and Kodak will pack the Cmos t hey are pushing to the recycling bin.
I am sure they know it, and will be or not be fixingthe issue,

Will they. ask you hey wegot a recall, Pleaseship back your cam for a new one, no they'll discontinue,and we'l no longer purchase a kodak again.

As I have a low level shot up in raw, as well day, I do not worry bout how high the bitrates are or low, I am again no pro, I am happy the way it is.

I expect, info of thecam how much it takes in inday to produce a higher bitrate, and night the same. so the shutter, must be changing, ISO being used, and wb, etc, etc, all must take effect.

Stab, and face detect, as well must absorb a lot of info. If I see a perfect day clip, I should not see a perfect night shot, the cam should not adjsut to see a ton of info. so it is INTERPOLATED at night

For a SAmsung hmx U10 , a more eligant cam with a touch screen, as well the JVC.

bollity Oct 26, 2009 12:09 PM

this is exactly the problem of the kodak zi8 fine vertical lines:

fishycomics Oct 26, 2009 2:34 PM


Originally Posted by bollity (Post 1013242)
this is exactly the problem of the kodak zi8 fine vertical lines:

I see more of the right of the Monitors picture, if it is a pic or vid. I show my vid as a capture.

So those that are into perfection, a decision on your behalf, thanks

bollity Oct 26, 2009 2:58 PM

on the left 1080 mode
on the right 720 mode

fishycomics Oct 26, 2009 3:03 PM

I do not think any res or a photo will make a difference. It is really a great Digital device, and if the newer model will ahve the same hardware, I hope others who are viewing will decide whatthey will do next. Purchase , or go else where?
Are you upset, or can you live with this?
There will be nor firmware to fix hardware. It is more a recall then a tweak, I am sure of that.

fishycomics Oct 26, 2009 3:28 PM

I looked at some backup clips, the Aiptek AHD, the Casio Ex-V7, the sanyo xacti, and the famous Aiptek Action HD GVS.

The GVS (see pic below) shows a dual layer effect, purple, noise, imagine looking through real thin tissue paper. at given times that iswhat you will get.

Certain clips rather Vertical lines more of grainulation, graies of sand, but smooth.

So we cannot just say the Kodak has issues, we can say other companies as well.

It is not good business to push a hybrid out on the market, and allow to pass what they no longer have, Inspection stations. even though a Computer can pass or fail, a actual person , cannot just randomally pic a Hybrid and tos to the reject bin. each hybrid should get a human evaulation.

I remember those Jeans, cannot stop throwing the inspection tags out, every time the hand went in the pocket another tag found.

thank you

Wayne12 Oct 26, 2009 5:54 PM

We are getting too nit picky I think. For the price (and expect for the sensor resolution issue) Kodak probably has the best hybrid on the market.

I cannot understand everything written this morning, but to make clear. Returning a Kodak might cost as much as the profit on ten cameras, so it should not be done lightly by everybody, as the company would make no money and have to leave the market.

If you have the exception issue rather than the rule, then it is worth returning. If it is the problem common rule and unacceptable, then it is worth avoiding and telling others to avoid buying. Simple rules for everybody to get along by.

I think the Kodak does not have serious exception issue or common serious problem (except maybe resolution of sensor and value judgment on performance in internal lighting). You are getting reasonable value (except for resolution issue and a few nigglies that do not need to be there, like streaking in internal lighting) for what you are paying. Noise bars are bugger, but as long as they are low in very low light.

bollity Oct 26, 2009 6:48 PM

i still have 2 weeks to decide because my friend who lives in america will come here soon and i sent him 200$ to buy a camera for me.if it is a software problem and kodak fixed it by a firmware update then i will choose kodak. if they didn't then my choice will be jvc picsio or samsung u10.

fishycomics Oct 26, 2009 7:10 PM

We hope it is a firmware, but I am afraid its hardware

Trevmar Oct 27, 2009 4:05 AM

Fishy (and all),
There is a fundamental difference between the cameras developed to take still pictures and those developed for video.

Camcorders have a system to control the amount of light coming in through the lens over a wide range of intensities. Yet still-cameras, which include the new "Flip" or Zi8 type of device, do not control the incoming light intensity nearly as well.

For example, my Panasonic ZS3 has a maximum aperture range of only f3.0 to f6.3 over which it can adjust the amount of light entering the lens. Yet my Canon HF100 camcorder has the ability to control incoming light both with a galvanometer type Iris, and with an automatic Neutral-Density filter. The higher-end Sanyo Xacti (such ast the CG10 and HD2000) also have a Neutral-Density filter.

Thus a camcorder can ensure the correct exposure by adjusting just the Shutter f value (usually from f2.8 to f22, a range of 2**12 (two to the twelfth power), while my ZS3 only controls over a tiny range f3 to f6.3, 2**4. The Zi8 does not control incoming light at all.

The problem is that the CCD imaging sensors overload when somewhere on, or just off the edge of, the image becomes very bright. This overload causes a bright vertical line on the output image. CMOS sensors do not suffer from this artifact quite as badly.

A camcorder, properly set, will reduce such vertical-line artifacts to zero (or close to zero) but a camera which does not adjust its aperture will have a lot of them.

With the Panasonic ZS3 you can see this quite clearly, as video taken in the video mode has vertical lines, while images taken with still-mode are clean. This is because in still-picture mode the CPU in the ZS3 detects the vertical line, and adjusts the shutter f value to eliminate the sensor overload. While in video mode the camera CPU does not have enough power to look for these overload lines and adjust the f-stop intelligently

I hope that helps :)

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