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Old Nov 19, 2006, 9:48 PM   #1
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So i finally gave in and went to circuitcity to buy my first hybrid. I got the p-dvr for 150$. The reason i got it over the mpvr was because it seemed to be the same thing (and i thought i read it was in the forums somewhere), plus it had a remote. Anyway so im excited about my purchase and go try it out at barnes and noble, The results were sooo horrible, webcam or less. There seem to be some good samples on the forum, I dont think ive seen any this bad. The video jumps around and it looks like its about 11fps. Just terrible all around.

here are some samples untouched right from the sd card.
http://www.esnips.com/web/slack0283sPhotos

the sound sucks, the image is horrible, the pics are horrible. I wasnt expecting much but from the samples i saw from other people it seemed to be a nice lil line of hybrids. Anyone have any explainations as to why it might oops so bad, and how i can help it not oops. If not im just gonna try to take it back.

P.S. I bought this for a super portable video solution. Im going to a concert next week and want to be able to sneek it in, but i honestly dont think the video quality would do even slight justice.. I also noticed when taking pics the flash goes off then about a second later it actually takes the pic, how damn worthless is that. Please tell me i can update the firmware or something.
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 10:34 PM   #2
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Hi welcome to the forum.

These cameras are not very good in lowlight and when they do pick up an image they tend to slow the shutter a lot. These cameras certainly are not good enough for the low light levels of a concert. You might do better with a miniDV or miniDVD but even they are not great with low light levels and they also tend to have even worse still image quality than the hybrids especially as they don't tend to come with a flash!

I have to say that the videos you have taken show an excessive amount of movement as you walk along. Most mpeg4 devices have trouble coping with rapid movement such as panning and walking. These devices are much lighter than your average miniDV and as such do not have much inertia which means any movement while walking will be much more pronounced and jerky than usual. You may be expecting a bit much in that respect. Generally if you limit the movement of these devices, they tend to perform much more respectably.

Now the best way to test these cameras to make sure they are not truly defective is to also try them out in full daylight. Take some video of a moving subject while stationary. Next do the same, but with some very slow panning of the horizontal.

Here is an example from my PVR (same as yours but with a 5MP sensor):

This was shot at a local fleamarket and you can see that it can cope with slow panning:

http://media.putfile.com/PVR3

Here is another one shot in Mexico, also with slow panning:

http://media.putfile.com/Mexico1

If your sole purpose is to use this device indoors in low light then I would have to admit that you may as well take it back, but your options are limited unless you are prepared to shell out big bucks. Even though the more expensive MPEG devices such as my Sanyo Xacti are much better in low light, they still are not great and a compact miniDV or miniDV won't be much better as I said and of course you might not be able to get away with sneaking one of these in anyway!



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Old Nov 19, 2006, 10:44 PM   #3
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yeah i saw your samples and was impressed its alot different than mine. Ive been playing with it and have gotten a couple better clips, but still not worth it. It was a great concept but i think im going to have to take it back. the flash issues is just way to much for me. ive found so many problems within the first hour of owning it. I almost bought the pvr or one of its spin off, wasnt that the one that had the video issues though? I guess it doesnt matter i should wait a couple years till they advance this scene a bit or continue my quest for a good quality super small video recorder.. because damnit im diggin the idea of this gadget.
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 11:02 PM   #4
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Before you take it back, can you record some scenes that have very close horizontal lines such as grills or the side of a white brick house. I'd be interested to see if yours suffers the prism effect as bad as the PVR.

This is the kind of effect I am talking about:

http://media.putfile.com/PVR5 (Look at the grill on the bus)

http://media.putfile.com/PVR3104 (The side of the house is distorted and the grill shows a rainbow effect)

Of course you will always get a little bit of the prism effect on very close lines due to the high compression but it shouldn't be this bad.
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 11:12 PM   #5
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Yeah ive been reading the forum for the past couple days and saw that there was that issue which was what pushed me away from the pvr/8800/etc.. models. I loved everything else about them especially the 89$ price at best buy. But im not sure that mine suffers from that, I will try to get an example clip. the 2 sample vids you posted sadly look better than mine and thats supposed to be the one with the problems..
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 11:14 PM   #6
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ps, i also forgot to ask how to put media movie files back onto the card to where it will recognize and play them, i assume its possible. Such as my own media files on my computer.
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Old Nov 19, 2006, 11:49 PM   #7
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alright here are some more samples.

http://www.esnips.com/web/slack0283sPhotos

check out clips 39 and 40.

some observations ive made that everyone surely has found out on there own.

in clip 39 the cam was set to stabilize with highest exposure. Commone sense says the higher exposure must mean slower shutter speed which would cause laggy clips. So i have to turn that all the way down, or most of the way. Now for whats causing the water effect, when i move the cam. I turned off the stabilizer and it went away.

so in clip 40 its darker but the result is WAY better, let me know what you think.
the pics still suck though..
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Old Nov 20, 2006, 6:46 AM   #8
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Anti

.Welcome to the Site, Please read this and hope you'll find your resolution

1. Circuitcity sold you the hybrid at 150.00, I would recommend you take a look into target, and see if it is worth picking up the MPVR+ for the same price?

2 Bestbuy has the PVR @ 89.97 Issues or not, I would have opted for that model over the 150.00 price?

why? newest model, and spending less money, would not hurt me as much? Why RGVcam did not mention that , he may have fgave you the best advice so far.

3 Flash, the flash is a red eye reduction, it will not flash the same time as the sound of the shutter?

A it will flash 3pop sec, sec pop sec,sec, long sec pop

B. you have a force flash, auto flash, and off you need to wait till the green lights up b4 a pic is taken. If on

This flash is the best so far takes an average of8- 15 feet max.

4.Stabilization on/off having this in the on position will crop your shot which you'll not notice at all, it is a gyro effect. steady hands will get you a bette video and pic if not you'll need to learn how to hold a hybrid (not insulting) having it on will basicaly use more file size

5 night mode when on you'll grain your video/pic and a purple haze may be seen.

night mode is used with a tripod, and no NO movement IN the VIDEO, it is the shutter allowing light in. Using the EV settings higher or lower -2-+2 may or may not effect the shot but using all these functions that will cause big time blur.

6. transfering your clips if you taken a clip off and saved to the pc reopen the sd card

dcim/100media/ clip0001 if you have filmed and clip0001 is there you'll need to rename your clip CLIP0001 to CLIP0101 or anything higher, and it will play. If you are adding a wmv or other ext you'll need to follow arc converter.

=======================================

7 Firmware is in here you may load up the Firmware will correct red eye reduction, webcam, and shutter sped,

I found out it takes the record away,which I like to see.

personay if you go anf grav the pvr it has a interior shuter cover andsnaps everytime you take pic, machanical, over electronic. possably you're better off in that area or the target one? both wil refund your money?

Low light ALL hybrids and even true camcorders do not work well in an indoor shot

the VId shows prismatic shakiness, street lamp glare and you must test it without the nightmode.

taking a vid at night sometimes a rainy nighttakes a smoother shot over a clear night, a full moon out etc...

sorry about how you feeel After reading the whole post I was gonna say bad sensor but Rgvcam to the rescue.... andshould have pointed theothe models as well. we're not perfect either :G
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Old Nov 20, 2006, 12:37 PM   #9
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added note

these two videos are recent.

Vid 1 http://media.putfile.com/fishing-89-86

this 1st one is just relaxing with the fishing pole. notice how jaggie it is around the white area of the house boat and in the distance the blue boat to the right upper screen

Sun is to my left shoulder , behind me for sure and works out fine for pure daylight

vid 2 http://media.putfile.com/CLIP0016

This is the guannes exspressway (spell check me) this overpass or exspress way, was expanded two additional lanes holding trucks, buses pass cars loaded with heavy traffic that you can imagine, has anyone ever driven off these high spots YES!

I did not have the stabilizer on, not did I wait for the camera to acknoledge for a long period, i caught it in the on position and was able to get the bright shot everything under this area is in a daylight situation, but take note at the end how dark it got

2 excellent videos show weakness

jaggies are pixals that are expanded befre they break up to hold the smoothest video display or pic with interpolation. jaggies are more for jpeg than video.

I believe that Aiptek does not use the whole sensor in video , thus causing this saturation, and sharpless video. the sensor is super sensitive to light and does not allow any type of light in, and being inside a vehicle, nad as wel under an overhang, did not help out.

the MPVR, has a better sensor over the IS-DV. the IS-DV is even darker in the same scenerio or situation.

you can say that is what a cmos sensor is bad at deciferring the difference of sun and shade.

we asked would the hybrid be great for a Concert

1 light must be bright on them on stage, can be dark all around

2 if no light is on them. you'll just get a dark video.

see vid 2 light was on me but not on the cars and the video became dark.

If we Ask do some simple testing before we go on a vacation, or excursion. best thing to do is test out on an object? the distance?

hybrid will proform if all situations are covered?

hope this oand other info helps out

Please let us know what your outcome is?

maybe a csio exslim? or sanyo, sony camcorder infrared only works 10 -20 feet and needs a tripod



All theshows i watched the cannon camcorde elur says perfect night life video, Blurry?
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Old Nov 21, 2006, 5:20 AM   #10
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Hey guys thanks for the info, I will admit ive had fun showing it off and playing with it for the past day. I took it to work where cameras are forbidden.. o well, my boss even asked whose it was when i was playing with it at lunch and then seemed not to care. He seemed more interesed in what it was. I will take some more samples over the next few days and more than likey take it back AFTER the concert, so we will see if it can do the job. I will be going to the concert then to see friends in chicago so i will be using it quite a bit this weekend, i will let you all know how it goes.
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