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Old Mar 5, 2007, 4:21 PM   #1
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I know the Kodak and Samsung cameras do not have an upright "camcorder-style" body like most hybrids, but I wonder if they are now becoming seriously contenders to the group of hybrids in this forum.

I think the loose definition of "hybrid cameras" here is a compact camera/ recorder that makes good lengths of decent to good quality video, which are stored onto flash memory cards.

The newer models (especially 2006 and later) of Kodak C and V series, and the Samsung NV series (and the older i), use high-efficiency MPEG4 codecs like MP4 MOV and DIVX (I mean _NOT_ MJPEG, which is in fact also classified as an MPEG4 codec and has caused confusion). Their video quality is catching up with the Sanyo Xacti C series (C6's 640 x 480 pixels as the standard - the high-def Sanyo HD models are not included in the comparison), in part because of higher video recording bitrate (eg. > 2000-2500 kbps - in fact the Kodak's bitrate is now 4000 kbps!).

They can still store between 30-40 minutes of high resolution/ quality video per GB, compared to only about 5-10 minutes of MJPEG of similar video resolution.

They all have optical zoom lens which can be operated in video mode, therefore zooming is not confined to resolution-degrading digital zoom. Some models have powerful zoom lens - not comparable with digital camcorders but definitely more than many usual point&shoot cameras. True, some models may be large and not pocketable, but look at the size of the Kodak V series twin-lens!

They are designed to be digital cameras, therefore the still picture quality is better than hybrids (and many digital camcorders) to start with.

Most of all - their price - are now less than $300 and becoming more affordable.


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Old Mar 5, 2007, 6:45 PM   #2
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Blindsight you bring up a great point.

hybrids camcorders are best decribed for the PC world.

and pro camcorders the TV world.

what makes a hybrid

anything
  1. pic[/*]
  2. vid[/*]
  3. mp3[/*]
  4. webcam[/*]
  5. file storage[/*]
  6. 6. pmp, or pmr
[/*]
you name it?

Even todays Camcorders have that

If they have the 3 features it is concidered a hybrid

What we overlook as well are our cellphones they are the tools of our trade can do everything possable as well.


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Old Mar 6, 2007, 3:29 PM   #3
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We will soon need add cameraphones to the hybrid list as many easily qualify. Not only do they have MP3 playback, video and still image ability, but you can do what no other hybrid can do, and that is make a phonecall and access the internet often with WIFI as well! Try doing that on an Aiptek or Mustek :lol:

Just take the Nokia N series Smartphones below for example:



While the 352x288/15fps video doesn't quite compare with the better cheap hybrids, it is often good enough and for one I have found that I am more likely to have my phone with me than my hybrids or digital cameras.

I have probably taken more photos of my son with my Cameraphone than my other cameras put together simply because I have it with me and am able to capture those once in a lifetime moments.
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Old Mar 6, 2007, 4:27 PM   #4
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agree.

but cellphones are of another nature, and we hi this subject once before , you may try a search way pass the pages

for example like RVCAM posts,

sprint, verizon also came out with a cell phone camcorder before it even goto the stores it was discontinued? 2x optical, and it was Sweet? the expo person did not know much of the camcorder cellphone at all.

this video can be found in here as well
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Old Mar 6, 2007, 9:41 PM   #5
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Of course the main problem with including cellphones in a hybrid forum is that it would soon become more of a cellphone forum and there is already a well known one of those called howardforums.
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Old Mar 6, 2007, 10:59 PM   #6
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Any digital still camera that does MPEG4 video at decent resolution is a competitor with the hybrids. Besides the cellphones, there's also PDP's with video capabilities.

As devices become more multifunctional, it will become more difficult to classify them. I don't care if anyone feels my classification of a device as a hybrid or not is arbitrary. Anyone else is more than welcome to construct their own list. They are more than welcome because I expect it will just get more difficult to maintain my list.

Regarding the Samung PDP cameras, I've often posted here about how the i6 compares to the hybrids, and it's still my favourite. But the hybrids I have do some things the Samsung does not, and do some things the Samsung also does, better than the Samsung.

While we argue the inclusion of MP3 on most hybrids does not detract from their capabilities as cameras, there is enough "other stuff" in cell phones that if they are in the same price ballpark, they will just not be as capable in the form of cameras.
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Old Mar 7, 2007, 4:35 AM   #7
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in the old forum this was talked about, and the old moderator got upset, that a hybrid that went over 200.00 usc was not a Hybrid

. we rought thecellphone topic up, and even again in the new Forum?

if you care to locate through al 22 pages of the thread. for a cellphone, a hybrid or etc Please be my guest.

We do not mind Comparing them to anything in here.


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Old Mar 7, 2007, 4:59 PM   #8
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From Merriam-Webster Online:

Main Entry:
hy·brid Listen to the pronunciation of hybrid
Pronunciation:
\'hi-br?d\
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Latin hybrida
Date:
1601

1: an offspring of two animals or plants of different races, breeds, varieties, species, or genera

2: a person whose background is a blend of two diverse cultures or traditions

3 a: something heterogeneous in origin or composition : composite <hybrids of complementary DNA and RNA strands> <a hybrid of medieval and Renaissance styles>

b: something (as a power plant, vehicle, or electronic circuit) that has two different types of components performing essentially the same function

As you can see, and as I had always though, a hybrid is generally 2 of anything blended together so in effect, if you wanted to be pedantic, most regular digital cameras could be now be called Hybrids. Even the Sanyo Xacti series.

But of course, we have to draw the line somewhere, otherwise we'd only have one forum on this website. Correct me if I am wrong, but on this forum, it seems the hybrid definition most prevalent seems to be any device that is a camera/camcorder/mp3 player and fairly inexpensive compared to regular digital cameras and camcorders.

It's funny that fishycomics mentioned cost as a factor in what was the definition of a hybrid. I remember being a member of a forum on yahoo called Tinycams that began to question the definition of a tinycam as well. In the early days,a tinycam was considered anything that was a non mainstream or 'noname' brand under $100-$150 with a low resolution (ie generally VGA) and fairly small. The trouble was that as time moved on and technology improved, these 'noname' and non mainstream devices improved a lot and the more expensive mainstream manufacturers such as Sony began to get cheaper. Suddenly they began to cross over each other so you no longer knew where the tinycams ended and the regular cameras started!

...and so it is happening with hybrids. This of course is to be celebrated!

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Old Mar 7, 2007, 6:48 PM   #9
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Someone mentioned the new Casio Exilim EX-V7 in the "What cameras should I buy?" forum:

7.2 MP, CCD-shift image stabilization

38-266 mm (35 mm camera equivalent) folded zoom lens

Video mode uses H.264 (AVC) codec

Optical zoom can be operated in video mode

The sample movies on the website look really good, better than Sanyo Xacti C6 - but I notice the video bitrate is very high (nearly 6 Mbps, twice as high as the Sanyo Xacti C6 for 640 x 480 resolution).

exilim.casio.com

price: around $400, maybe a bit steep

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