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Old Jan 6, 2008, 12:21 PM   #21
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Again, I can't believe you made this comment, especially when I look at this issue from the standpoint of someone who uses non-linear video editing software.

The mono recordings -- when inserted into the NLE timeline -- occupy only one channel -- left or right -- of the typical NLE stereo audio track.

This means the mono audio -- if not copied and pasted into the second stereo track -- will only be heard through either the left or right speaker during playback to the viewer.

This may seem minor, but it adds to the labor one must do when creating a finished, edited piece.

Please -- don't encourage these Chinese manufacturers to continue forcing this ultra cheap, 11.025KHz, mono audio on us.

Thanks,

Private Idaho

adric22 The microphones on the Sanyo are so close together they might as well be mono.[/quote]
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Old Jan 6, 2008, 12:35 PM   #22
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thanks P.I. I have those days you know. thanks again some are more or louder than others?
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Old Jan 6, 2008, 1:04 PM   #23
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I just did a new test with my Sanyo VPC-CG6.

Yes, the "hiss" noise isn't quite as bad when I go outside and record in natural noise environments, but I can still hear it, which means the audio components in this camcorder could stand some improvement, too.

Here's a link to a YouTube video where a fellow took the time to show the difference between the audio recorded by his Sanyo HD1A vs. the audio recorded by his Edirol R-09 field recorder:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uuNPpX2R1N4

I use Sony MiniDisc recorders in the field for the very same reason.

Bottom line:

All hybrid camcorder manufacturers desperately need to improve their audio.

Private Idaho
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Old Jan 6, 2008, 1:19 PM   #24
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when I first got the A-Hd. I taken three camcorders. The jvc casio Ex-V7 and the Aiptek A-Hd.

I was blown away with the bang, thought the sound of the Aiptek was sweet, The casio seemed to Be mising the Umph, like it had absorbed the sound, Jvc did just fine.

Now if I grab my trusty 7-8 year or older mustek DV3000. dv4500 model. WOW yes cannot believe I said that: I probably be happier with its sound over todays lowend Models. I was so happy with its vide/audio back then i am happy now.
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Old Jan 6, 2008, 3:31 PM   #25
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Just did another little test with my ISDV2.4.

It seems Aiptek have seen fit to record the mono audio in such a way that -- when imported into my Windows NLE, Corel's Ulead VideoStudio 11 Plus, that the sound is heard on both speakers.

Still, when I edit, I edit with the assumption that my finished product will be stereo.

So I still have to convert the mono audio to stereo, which adds another tedious step.

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Old Jan 6, 2008, 3:35 PM   #26
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I also tested the audio recording of the ISDV2.4 in a quiet room environment.

After importing this recording into my other Windows NLE, Corel's Ulead MediaStudio Pro 8, I examined the waveform in that program's "Audio Editor," which provides a full-screen waveform view.

The visual representation of the waveform reveals a lot.

The audio is not normalized.

The peaks and valleys of the waveform extend only halfway from the center line.

When I normalize this audio, the peaks and valleys extend all the way out from the center line.

And it sounds much better.

I'm going to do the same test with the Sanyo VPC-CG6.

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Old Jan 6, 2008, 4:12 PM   #27
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The Sanyo VPC-CG6 properties.

Video

MPEG-4 ASP
24 Bits 640 x 480
29.97 frames per second
3,000 Kbps

Audio

MPEG AAC
48000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
128 Kbps

Compared to the Aiptek ISDV2.4.

Video

Windows Media Video
MPEG-4z
24 Bits, 720 x 480
30 Frames Per Second

Audio
ADPCM_MS
11.025KHz
16 Bits, Mono

My Ulead software doesn't seem to be able to break the video/audio data rates into separate figures for the Aiptek video.

I'm only given a total data rate of 3080Kbps

Believe it or not, the Aiptek audio actually sounds better to my ear because it is less NOISY.

The Sanyo VPC-CG6 audio is incredibly noisy.

This is why I was happy to get the Sanyo for just $200 at Wal-Mart.

Anybody who pays more for a Sanyo -- believing they're getting a top quality camcorder -- is, in my opinion, mistaken.

When you compare the Sanyo models to models of similar price from Panasonic, Sony, and Canon, the Sanyo's don't look so great.

They're just smaller.

The only reason that I can see to buy a Sanyo is...

a. You get a nice sale;
b. You absolutely have to have small size and you can accept the ridiculously noisy audio.

I found a post from a backpacker who bought the Sanyo VPC-HD700 only to discover the audio was crappy here:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=110693

So this issue isn't confined to the Sanyo VPC-CG6; it's a general Sanyo issue.

After doing these tests, I'm convinced I can actually get more mileage out of the Aiptek audio than from the Sanyo audio.

The video from the Sanyo, as Adric22 has noted, is brighter and there seems to be more detail.

So if you can get a Sanyo on sale, it's probably worth it.

Private Idaho
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Old Jan 6, 2008, 7:05 PM   #28
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Private Idaho, you are amazing me. However, I suspect there may be some difference between our sanyo units because I do not have this terrible noise that you speak of on mine. The audio is tremendously better on my Sanyo than on my Aiptek IS-DV2.

I have a way to settle this argument. When I have some time in the next day or two, I'll put the two cameras side by side and record the same scene. Then I'll convert the Sanyo's audio down to 11 Khz mono. That way it will be the same sampling rate as the Aiptek. Then lets see which one sounds better. My hypothesis is that the Sanyo will still sound way better than the Aiptek.

I also do not have an issue with this left/right issue. When I pull audio into Adobe Premiere, it knows if the audio is mono or stereo and treats it accordingly. However, I have had to deal with issues on videos that people have recorded from a VCR or something and only recorded one channel, but the actual audio stream contains two channels. Then I have to delete one and convert the other to mono. But I don't have to do this with my Aiptek. What I DO find to be a pain is how the Aiptek cameras are often out of sync and I have to delicately move the audio track forwards or backwards to compensate.

Oh.. it is also worth mentioning, on your list of specifications, that the Aiptek IS-DV2 does not record 30 fps. The specs claim "up to 30 fps" but I have done extensive testing on this matter and found that in 640x480 mode it consistently delivers 18 fps and in 320x240 mode it will deliver about 21 fps.
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Old Jan 6, 2008, 10:13 PM   #29
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Possibly.

But don't you find it odd, Adric22, that I'm not the only one reporting awful audio quality in connection with Sanyo camcorders?

See Lynn's comment here: http://tinyurl.com/25zo6c

Now, I suppose it's possible Lynn and I were just "unlucky" and we got defective camcorders.

But let's assume that's true.

That fact alone would not speak highly of this manufacturer's quality control.

But then there's Fishy's tests.

To my ear, they reveal the same problem with his Sanyo VPC-HD700.

And then there are the many other Sanyo samples I've seen (and listened to) on the Web.

I'm pretty sure this is a fairly widespread issue.

Don't get me wrong where the Aiptek audio is concerned.

I believe Aiptek's audio is also in need of improvement.

But today's testing revealed that -- where my camcorders are concerned -- the Aiptek audio is actually something I would use.

I doubt I would ever use the audio that my Sanyo model delivers.

If you got a better model, good for you; I'm happy for you.

But -- as I mentioned earlier -- the Sanyos, in my view, are overpriced.

Plain and simple.

If you can get them on sale, then that's a different story; they're probably worth it, depending on how good the sale is.

I have a Sony AVCHD camcorder and it just blows away what I've seen from the Sanyo VPC-HD700.

The only thing Sanyo sells that may be on a par -- maybe -- is the VPC-HD1000, but that one is still fairly expensive.

Regards,

Private Idaho

adric22 wrote:
Quote:
However, I suspect there may be some difference between our sanyo units.
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Old Jan 6, 2008, 10:55 PM   #30
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Question for you Adric22.

If you look on the bottom of your Sanyo VPC-CG6, where does it indicate it was manufactured?

China or Indonesia?

By the way, the noise is not so bad that every individual could notice it.

I've just shot so much video over the years, I suppose I pay more attention to the audio than most.

The noisy audio associated with my Sanyo VPC-CG6 is a low-level hiss; it's not really, really loud.

Many people would probably not notice it.

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