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Old Apr 13, 2008, 5:50 PM   #91
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If you connect AIPTEK Z500 via [component] cable, you get on TV screen same picture/movings like on AIPTEK LCD, there is NO delay between the two screens.

<--- TV 40" (done by Oly SP-570)

<--- TV 40" (done by Oly SP-570)



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Old Apr 13, 2008, 6:17 PM   #92
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I am sure wayne12 trying to understand . The hybrid hasa settingto turn on/off the icon. The hybrid can also be used as a external video source for example:

Aiptek is the lens only. Yes turn of the icons, in setting. If you're asking about the HDMI HD output video only cable, again turn off in the setting /icon, as well as using the standard tv playback.

Aiptek waviness, has been with the camera since day one, and not sure if it is with this device still?

Wayne12 wrote:
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Anybody managed to have a look at this?


Wayne12 wrote:
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wakkadss wrote:
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I just bought it today from Wal-Mart.
..
Thanks.
Hi guys, I am interested in doing a few interesting things with the camera. I would like to see if I can get a picture quality of at least a prosumer camera out of it and record it. I however need to know a few things to do this.

Testing 720p60

Firstly, when you are filming, or the camera is on in standby in either video or still mode, is there a video feed on the component/HDMI output without icons? Some cameras don't allow a live feed while filming.

Using your HD flat panel's onscreen status display, what resolution and frame rate does it report? Does it look like 720p60fps? On previouse Aiptek HD camera it was reported to output standard definition live video feed while filming.

Is there any delay at all between you waving your hand in front of the camera and it being displayed live on your flat panel TV screen? No delay indicates it maybe a uncompressed video stream.

Waving your hand frantically closely in front of it, rapidly twisting, turning and panning the camera around, does any small blocks, blurry blobs, loss of resolution happen on the live feed to the HD TV screen? Lack of any of these things is good back up proof that it is probably uncompressed (as these things cause picture degradation on extremely compressed footage).

Other questions:

Any mention of which sensor it uses, signal to noise ratio (SNR) range?
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Old Apr 13, 2008, 7:18 PM   #93
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DonalDuc wrote:
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If you connect AIPTEK Z500 via [component] cable, you get on TV screen same picture/movings like on AIPTEK LCD, there is NO delay between the two screens.

Thanks

As Fishy says can it output without icons (though I do not completely understand all that he said)? Also, could you re-check if there is no delay between real life and the TV output instead of the LCD, or small blocks, blurry blobs, loss of resolution using the test (waving hand frantically close to the camera, and twisting turning and panning camera around are designed to mess up compressed footage easily). (I have read somewhere of an Aiptek user that experience same delay on LCD as TV, so LCD is not necessarily good for comparison).

So, the camera will output a live video feed out of the component in 720p60 format (not standard definition like the AHD was restricted to)?
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Old Apr 13, 2008, 8:00 PM   #94
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Sorry if i were to technical or

go to the on then to the menue then to the setting then to Icon turn off.:?

Wayne12 wrote:
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DonalDuc wrote:
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If you connect AIPTEK Z500 via [component] cable, you get on TV screen same picture/movings like on AIPTEK LCD, there is NO delay between the two screens.

Thanks

As Fishy says can it output without icons (though I do not completely understand all that he said)? Also, could you re-check if there is no delay between real life and the TV output instead of the LCD, or small blocks, blurry blobs, loss of resolution using the test (waving hand frantically close to the camera, and twisting turning and panning camera around are designed to mess up compressed footage easily). (I have read somewhere of an Aiptek user that experience same delay on LCD as TV, so LCD is not necessarily good for comparison).

So, the camera will output a live video feed out of the component in 720p60 format (not standard definition like the AHD was restricted to)?
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Old Apr 13, 2008, 10:58 PM   #95
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Not the technical just the interpretation. Some other things, hard to interpret in relation to live output of component:

"Aiptek is the lens only."

"as well as using the standard TV playback." Which I thought, sick today, you meant smoothing about standard resolution, but now realise you were talking about icons during playback. But I guess you are also saying that Icons turn off during live footage.
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Old Apr 14, 2008, 4:28 AM   #96
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Aiptek camera:

Icons are just images on thecamera that can be turned on or off. They are not embedded on, or in a video, only, if you are recording from another device. Only information on the file would be a date, camera, file size, bitrates sound rate. This can be seen through software playback, and at certain sites, like photbucket.com.

Some companies you wil have embedded icons, like timers, that once are on, and in the video permently on there. In order to remove , for example, the timer, you crop.

Turn on camera, go to "menu", go to "settings" go to"icon" turn on or off. if using as a external source no icons will show, using as a recorder, no iconss how.
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Old Apr 14, 2008, 10:54 AM   #97
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Not forgetting my previouse clarification questions on live component.

I have done a comparison between Z500 video footage and Casio Ex-1.

(I have not compared interlace 1080interlace footage, as it normally is worse, inferior per bitrate used, due to the problems compressing interlace footage. Ambarella, that the Aiptek uses for h264 compression, claim some improved compression for interlace though. I do not know who Casio uses for h264 compression. So maybe things would be different in 1080i modes (I think the Casio sues a proper 1080 mode).

Both cameras seem to have nice latitude, but could do with another 4 stops or so. Both cameras seem to have reasonable Signal to Noise ratio, I could not tell fro the Aiptek footage much more, but from the trans-coded to Mpeg2 Casio footage it looks like that it could do with 4 to 8 more stops signal to noise ratio (I use stops instead of db now, because it is more well understood that a stop is double that every 6db is double, and it is shorter to write). However, i have not viewed low light footage for both to estimate (plus they are using noise canceling techniques).

The codecs seem to be doing a descent job. Though the mpeg2 trans-coded Casio footage shows a lot of blocking in the footage, non-transcoded footage does not show up like that (I did not check very deeply for stuff though). The Casio is the best h264 camera footage I have examined (I have not examined many though) looks smooth for 30fps (but no 720p50fps real disappointment). The Aiptek footage is also doing surprising well. However, I think both cameras could do with at least twice the the data-rate, as details still go missing, and for movement. The cameras seems to be better than what we have seen with the old Sanyo Mpeg4 series though. If the Sanyo had been like this (maybe 19mb/s Mpeg4 720p50), I think we would have been much more happier.

I would not like to say conclusively, but wonder if the Aiptek can beat the Sanyo codec wise, even with it's much higher bit rate, and it seems to perform well against that camera in latitude etc as well. If anybody would like to do an in-depth comparison with that camera, I think it would be interesting.

Both camera sensors seem somewhat similar in performance, with the Casio seeming to be a grade above. However, the Aiptek seems to have some old and new problems. It's footage is wavy, rolling shutter maybe, which is not good for consumer video even, please not. I guess this is still using a Micron sensor, and Micron has sensors with a global shutter like feature to reduce rolling shutter. Whiles edges and lines are well defined in the Casio, they still show problems in the Aiptek, though it seems better than what we used to get on the Sanyo, and better than the previouse Aipteks. It still does show up, and there is still some fly-screen effect on chrome like edges (see the blue 4wd at the start of the parking lot footage). Smoothing new I have noticed though, is where there are lines radiating out from edges, almost like interlace (this is all the 720p60 mode). For examples on the cars and other pictures, see the attachment.


Ignoring these problems for now, I have not liked Micron sensors in times past, as they were low end for what I wanted, but the Aiptek seems to perform adequately now.

One note is the color of red in the Aiptek, the bright traffic lights in the sidewalk footage seem to burn out in the middle and go pink. I do not know what color they use for break lights in cars in the country being filmed, but they seem orangnish/pink, the indicators too orange, and this seems to come up in the color of vehicles too, and also the reddish ground plants in the parking lot footage that appear to be a more bit yellowish than they do here. I wonder if it is the green filter encroaching in the red spectrum a bit more than normal. However it could be processing.

The color aberration from bright objects is much much less than what i have seen on Sanyo footage, and is slight from what I saw in the footage, if there. Which camera had more, I cant remember.

There seems to be crawling in the moving road detail of the Aiptek Drive 1 footage, but thee is not much detail there anyway. Still seems to do well with this. But the Flower scene with the Aiptek does crawl with movement, it is also lower light. Also focus and aperture movements mess up the precessing compassing in this scene. On a computer monitor you might need to magnify, on a big screen TV (over 46inches) you might not need to.

Shadows on ground seem to make detail crawl in both cameras (though (I am not sure about the Casio, as it was at distance under the trees in the duck landing scene). This sort of makes the details shimmer, and messes with the compression/image precessing temporarily).

What it doesn't have is fly screening shimmering across all details in primary colors (due to low values of surrounding pixels with low values (most of these being another primary color)). This was very common in pocket HD cameras. However, the Casio handles it better it seems to me. I think i did see some on one of the cameras.

Conclusion, The z500 is the standard minimum all cameras should strive for. The Casio is the minimum that prosumer cameras should strive for. If the cameras can hold up as well on all other departments of use, audio, handling etc, then it seems that the Aiptek is good consumer value for around $200 on special, but the Casio needs to be closer to $500, even with 720p50 mode of twice the data-rate (of currently just under 9mb/s from what I can tell).


Links to the Casio footage can be found here:

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo...99&forum_id=14


And by the way, I have found the lockness monster in the Casio footage. It's in the attachment (cant seem to download and embed multiple images). See, the duck at the side sees him, it's not an illusion .
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Old Apr 14, 2008, 12:31 PM   #98
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Will somebody please post a video recorded via AV-IN? Thanks!

I noticed on Aiptek website, there is a new 1800mAh battery available
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Old Apr 14, 2008, 1:30 PM   #99
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I just purchased the A-HD+ yesterday based on samples I saw from the A-HD. I currently own (and am returning) an Xacti HD1A because of saturation and cmos noise issues.

I haven't seen this mentioned in the thread yet, but the A-HD+ comes with a version of TotalExtreme that is capable of creating Blu-Ray discs. I haven't done too much research into whether or not it does true 1080p Blu-Ray (event interlaced or not) but it does create menus and transcode the video. If you do not have a Blu-Ray burner installed, it gives you a choice to create a folder which will contain the appropriate Blu-Ray folder/file structure. The only downside right now is that most (if not all) Blu-Ray players require BD-R or BD-RE discs for it to be recognized as a Blu-Ray disc. If you burn the folders/files to a DVD data disc, the Playstation 3 will see it as a data media disc and won't display a menu, but it will let you play individual videos.

For Blu-Ray output, I believe the A-HD+ video is AVC and audio is AAC so the only format conversion would be audio (to AC3 or LPCM probably) and then rewrap both audio and video in an MPEG2 Transport Stream. This means that video re-encoding isn't necessary; hopefully TotalMedia is intelligent in their processing and don't touch the actual video.

As for low-light, it beats the pants off my (former) HD1A (which surprised me quite a bit). I've been testing the A-HD+ in 720p30 mode and cmos noise is VERY minimal if you are not zoomed in (at full zoom, the noise becomes much more prevalent). Switching to 720p60 results in a darker image as expected but the slow-motion capabilities completely offset that in my mind.

My least favorite things (but aren't show stoppers for me) are:
- 1080p mode has a noticeable increase in cmos noise. Videos become more grainy but it isn't overwhelming; just don't zoom at all.
- zoom isn't smooth at all; it jumps/steps in and out.

I'd REALLY like to get my hands on an Action HD but no Walmart near me (or within 100 miles of me) stocks it. I don't know if anyone would be up for it, but I'd like to do something through Paypal where I can pay someone to buy and ship me off one that is stocked at their local Walmart.

-Scott
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Old Apr 14, 2008, 1:42 PM   #100
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I'm not sure if your comment about Blu-ray players is accurate.

Corel's Ulead VideoStudio 11 Plus -- with optional Blu-ray Power Pack -- apparently gives one the ability to record high definition video to normal DVDs as "AVCHD" discs, which are supposed to be supported by Blu-ray Disc players.

That's my understanding anyway. I haven't tried it.

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