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Old May 4, 2008, 1:48 PM   #221
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Trevmar:

yes, that is the model that I was referring to, the HV-30.

Jay
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Old May 4, 2008, 3:07 PM   #222
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Low light I am sure it was low enough lol

I have noticed it filming grey wonder if any type of sensor is workingto correctly get a video not a full color video and for that I am happy enough it clearly shows you that there are fish there yes? not a perfect video.

well soon we'll have a comparison soon
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Old May 4, 2008, 5:40 PM   #223
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http://forums.steves-digicams.com/fo...mp;forum_id=92

Please now post your comments to the updated site thank you this topic is closed
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Old May 7, 2008, 1:43 PM   #224
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Well scorbing, if you read my post more carefully I said 60fps means nothing if you burn to dvd, which it doesn't. The extra 30fps are chopped off.

I have never said the Jazz video sucked, I downloaded a 100 meg file earlier in this thread and burnt it to dvd and when I saw it, I was amazed at the clarity and that made me get a Jazz. Even on the pc, the Jazz looked great. I downloaded two 720p 60fps of the Aiptek, fuzzy and thus I didn't go with it. Maybe personal choice/tastes determine what we buy.
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Old May 8, 2008, 11:16 AM   #225
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Well I made a DVD from a Jazz video and I saw pixelation on the video and that is why I went for the Aiptek instead. I can't see the pixelation on the Aiptek video like I did on the Jazz one. The Jazz records video on a lower bitrate and therefore the quality is lower when you convert it to DVD. Even on the PC you cannot see the background vegetation correctly yet on the Aiptek Action HD videos you can. I don't know, maybe I got lucky and got a very good model but the videos of the action HD look awesome on my PC and excellent when converted to video. Of course, on the PC it all depends on the video card you have installed. I have a Radeon 2900 Pro HD card and it makes all videos look great. I guess we'll have to wait for HD DVD writers to come down in price and buy one and make an HD DVD from the video on the Aiptek and the Jazz to really see the true quality. When you reduce the FPS from 60 to 30 like you said, you do degrade the video so it will be interesting to see those videos at their true 60 FPS on the HD TV.

sandmanfvr wrote:
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Well scorbing, if you read my post more carefully I said 60fps means nothing if you burn to dvd, which it doesn't. The extra 30fps are chopped off.

I have never said the Jazz video sucked, I downloaded a 100 meg file earlier in this thread and burnt it to dvd and when I saw it, I was amazed at the clarity and that made me get a Jazz. Even on the pc, the Jazz looked great. I downloaded two 720p 60fps of the Aiptek, fuzzy and thus I didn't go with it. Maybe personal choice/tastes determine what we buy.
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Old May 8, 2008, 3:01 PM   #226
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I am beginning to think ALL these camcorder have "hit and miss" units. I got shots from outside with my Jazz 188, with tall grass and it looks great. Pebbles on the driveway looks detailed. Not perfect, but detailed. I looked at a couple Action HD, and man it was fuzzy. Maybe it is the sensors on these things and some are "just ok" and some are better. CPU makers Intel and AMD do this, the chips that don't make the grade for say a 3 ghz chip get put in lower ghz machines. The chip was "Defective" for 3 ghz, but it was enough for a 2 ghz machine. Maybe not, but I have see some good and bad Jazz videos to. Hard to tell.
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Old May 9, 2008, 12:44 PM   #227
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sandmanfvr wrote:
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I am beginning to think ALL these camcorder have "hit and miss" units. I got shots from outside with my Jazz 188, with tall grass and it looks great. Pebbles on the driveway looks detailed. Not perfect, but detailed. I looked at a couple Action HD, and man it was fuzzy. Maybe it is the sensors on these things and some are "just ok" and some are better. CPU makers Intel and AMD do this, the chips that don't make the grade for say a 3 ghz chip get put in lower ghz machines. The chip was "Defective" for 3 ghz, but it was enough for a 2 ghz machine. Maybe not, but I have see some good and bad Jazz videos to. Hard to tell.
For what it's worth I also think the Aipteks have the slightly better video, but it's not as great a difference as it first appears though. The reason being is that the Aiptek does have a slightly higher bitrate but both cameras suffer from being on the edge of 'just having enough' for the average scene most users are likely to shoot.

This is why some videos even from the same camera look quite good while others seem to look a bit pixellated. You could have two similar complex scenes with vegetation and while one looks ok, the other doesn't simply because even though they look similar in complexity, one of them may have just enough more detail to tip the encoding over the edge to cause pixellation.

I actually don't think there are 'hit and miss' units. I think the variation is simply as I explained above.

I had been toying myself with the idea of returning my Jazz 178 and getting the Aiptek Action HD, but my Laptop just won't handle the files from this device. Also I want to stress that the reason I was even thinking of this, has nothing to do with being unhappy with my 178. In fact the reason I *haven't* returned it, is that I am actually quite pleased with the 178 given it's price. This is in stark contrast to the Sanyo HD700 I recently tried. I also got that for a good price but I still couldn't make myself happy with it. Even allowing for the fact that the 178 is a cheap device meaning I would be more foregiving, I still think it's an amazing and well built and designed device that they could've gotten away with selling for more (but then I really don't want to put ideas in their head!)

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Old May 9, 2008, 1:38 PM   #228
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rgvcam,
I had trouble with the Aiptek-Action-HD video until I bought the coreAVC codec (15 bucks or so). This allows Windoze DirectShow to display the images nicely (on Windoze Media Player, for example). Editing is a bit more tricky. The Aiptek H264 does go to the extreme of the coding rules, and not all H264 decoders will work with it.

The way I do it is to process the Aiptek video with AviSynth and Virtualdub, going to an intermediate format which my editor (Vegas) can easily handle. Use VirtualDub to open a single line AviSynth source, eg,
DirectShowSource(".\FILE0005_AIP_1080_30.MOV")
and the coreAVC codec works like a charm. Then save from Virtualdub in a format your editor can manage.

Oh - you need to run the video through VirtualDub in any case - so as to use Gunnar Thalin's "DeShaker" plug-in. This amazing piece of software turns a jerky hand-held image into something looking like it came out of a steadi-cam. It even interpolates at the edge of images.

Anyway, that's the hard way to do it, but it works beautifully...

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Old May 14, 2008, 9:28 PM   #229
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I grabbed a 178 last week and it's ok so far.

The quality isn't as sharp and detailed as the original Aiptek A-HD but that's not the reason I bought it. I wanted something smaller I could easily fit in my pocket and this does the job. This may be my new fishing camera. Otherwise, the Canon TX1 is my main camera.

The audio isn't too bad but if you're in a noisy area, like listening to a live band, the audio will be blown out.

I did a test of the DeShaker plugin and the results are pretty good. It even fixes the rolling shutter issue to an extent.

Here's the original footage:
http://vimeo.com/1016195

Ran through DeShaker using VirtualDub:
http://vimeo.com/1016224
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Old May 15, 2008, 9:07 PM   #230
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I just received the Phoenix M-Power Small 0.45 Magnetic Wide Angle Lens.
The only cam I had it would fit on was the HDV-178.
Took a cruise at night to test it out. Mounted on a GorillaPod.

http://vimeo.com/1019495
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