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Old May 14, 2008, 3:31 PM   #1
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I wonder how long it will take for the hybrid folks to tap the student film market and put out a camera that does 24 fps? It would be a hot item and shouldn't be hard to do.

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Old May 14, 2008, 3:53 PM   #2
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This 24p thing is a fraud, in my opinion.

Video is not film.

Film is not video.

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Old May 14, 2008, 5:45 PM   #3
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Looks like film and saves on file space. BluRay players can play back 24 fps clips no problem. 24 fps has proven popular on the Canon HV and HF series. I would say on that alone the marketing departments would be asking about adding it. It could probably reduce artifacts too (more time to process the frame). Also you make one camera for both markets. NTSC file has pull down flags and PAL speeds up to 25 fps.


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Old May 14, 2008, 9:43 PM   #4
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I am using a new HF100 now, having had two HV20s for a couple of years. I find 24p produces excellent video, both for DVDs and Vimeo/YouTube, and because Canon have really paid attention to smooth motion blur, even a 1/12 sec shutter is usable. That is 4 times as much light into the sensor as at 1/60 sec, and so 24p, with these cameras, will take decent movies where color is even marginal with the naked eye.

At the moment the HF100 at 24p 1/24sec is about 2 f stops better than my HD1000 at 1/15sec (HS) in low light, and about 7 f stops better than my DXG-569. Since nearly all my footage is shot indoors, that is a big deal...

IMHO, of course... YMMV...

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Old May 14, 2008, 9:51 PM   #5
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Why I consider the 24p hype to be a typical amateur videographer MYTH.

1. Film = 24 frames per second

However, film in a theatre -- thanks to double-bladed shutters -- actually displays at 48 frames per second in a dark environment. Good thing. Motion pictures -- if actually displayed at 24 frames per second -- would be almost unbearable to watch due to the flicker induced by a true 24 frames per second temporal resolution.

2. Video is not film

Frame rate -- on monitors -- is expressed in terms of "Hz." Accordingly, you'll see lots of monitors that can accept a 24 frames per second signal, but they modify it by adding black frames and repeat frames so they can display it at some multiple of 24... 72hz or 96Hz. Why? It's so pointless. It actually *doesn't* look like film to my eyes.

3. Video is best when acquired, edited, displayed at 60 frames per second

Fast action... such as sports... begs for higher frame rates. This is why I prefer 60 frames per second for video and I would like to be able to edit such video in a 60 frames-per-second template and displayed on a 60Hz monitor. 60/60/60.

4. If you love the look of film, then rent a film camera.

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Old May 14, 2008, 9:54 PM   #6
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But I'll admit the marketing departments who've sucked in so many videographers with this ploy have earned their pay.

:lol:

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Old May 14, 2008, 11:19 PM   #7
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You know, Private Idaho, as one of those "suckers" I almost exclusively use 24p, sometimes with 1/48 shutter, mostly with 1/24 shutter.

Most things I take are indoors, and fast action is just not useful. Noise is a bigger problem. 24p on the Canon camcorders is excellent. I have just bought the new Canon HF100, I am so "sucked in" by the (apparently illusory) quality coming from using this mode.

Oh - another thing - since Vimeo interpolates the frame rate to 25p it messes up 30p and 60p clips. But it doesn't touch the frame rate of my 24p content


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Old May 15, 2008, 11:25 AM   #8
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Well, if you're happy then fine.

But remember... 24 frames per second acquisition is a mere accident of history associated with an entirely different medium.

There's nothing magic about 24.

And, as I've indicated, when so-called "24p" video is displayed... it is not displayed at 24 frames per second... it is manipulated to be displayed at multiples of 24.

By the time one manipulates this type of video to the extent necessary for editing/output, one has lost any so-called "quality" advantage associated with the lower frame rate.

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Old May 15, 2008, 11:30 AM   #9
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By the way, I agree the Canon model is great.

Much better than my Sony UX1.

But I wouldn't waste my time with the 24 frame mode, if I owned that model.

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Old May 15, 2008, 1:50 PM   #10
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Private Idaho wrote:
Quote:
But remember... 24 frames per second acquisition is a mere accident of history associated with an entirely different medium.

There's nothing magic about 24.
Somewhere back many years ago, when I was studying medicine, I learnt that there are threshold frequencies at which the brain can be triggered into an epileptic fit, and also at which the brain perceives smooth motion. My understanding is that 24 fps was carefully chosen based on those physiological parameters:?

http://juicystudio.com/article/photo...e-epilepsy.php

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