Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital Cameras (Point and Shoot) > Hybrid Still/Movie/MP3 Digicams

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Jun 20, 2008, 6:57 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Wayne12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,071
Default

That is why it is important to have more data rate, and a good codec. If you are referring to blurry blobs, that is a h264 trick to hide blocking, because the compression can't keep up at the given data rate. At 9mb/s (which I believe the Aiptek is) you are still getting blocking, at around 7.5mb/s that I believe at least one of the Digilife samples are done, that is potentially a lot of loss for a compression system already breaking down at 9mb/s. I do not know how compression would improve above that precisely, I am waiting to compare higher data rate cameras that also have high grade of h264 system.

I have been advocating on various forums, even ambarella years ago, for a shift to hierarchal compression fail to produce better compression at a given low bit rate. One of my personal schemes I have contemplated, would potentially even give useful results at 1000's to one intra compression, with some advanced inter compression techniques that would go to potentially 10000:1 plus, but all far from acceptable for consumer video. I am keeping it to myself for now, as it is an amusing little trick, and a bit of a satirical jab at the compression industry techniques.

Anyway hierarchal, the faster it moves above a certain tracking speed the more you sacrifice detail while preserving smooth outline and feature shape, and lastly ramping of object surface. This is next strategically applied to parts of the scene. Water is a good one for shaping. This is combined with all the regular compression functions. It would probably have to be pretty drastic compression or pretty complex scene for the scheme to work down the hierarchy list in a visually obvious way. Basically, you should never need to use h264 blobbing, which would be more counterproductive here.
Wayne12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2008, 4:28 PM   #12
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 17
Default

Ordered one from him end of last week.. Picked up from the seller by DHL Saturday was here Today (Monday, now that's fast) Hong Kong to UK.

Paid £119 with free shipping and 8GB card inc.. not played a great deal with it, but from the very small tests so far this is an excellent camera for it's price.

I did a very quick vid test when I got out of work near my car (mines not the Pug though ) and was very pleased with the result (a lot better than I expected from it)

Reduced full frame grab.. (from video not a still)


100% crop from the resulting 1920x1080 .mov file..


Will do some proper testing over the week/weekend and let you know how it goes..
Wowcow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2008, 5:29 PM   #13
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 92
Default

Thanks for the samples! Better wait for the videos before commenting.
I think you made a typo -> 1920x1080. Isn't it 1440x1080?
Ah, Welcome to the forum!
sr71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2008, 5:54 PM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 17
Default

I think 1440x1080 is the hardware capture/limitation but it's then upscaled in camera to maintain aspect ratio, the resulting files are 1920x1080

Wowcow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2008, 9:05 PM   #15
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 5
Default

These video stills (framegrab)are great, much better than whatI thought. This camera is luring me into it's purchase.
CheapHD_guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 23, 2008, 10:24 PM   #16
Senior Member
 
Wayne12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,071
Default

Will have to wait for the shots, and if their is any higher data-rate mode.

Their seems to be some interpolation problem on the cars headlight rim in the upper left to lower right diagonal (and other diagonals). We used to see such a thing on the Sanyo HD1.

Seems to be some sharpening and ringing, but you need to do lossless PNG full frames to be sure, as Jpeg can introduce it's own problems.

Reds and greens are very yellowish, which doesn't help with the Asian crowds in sample clips above maybe. Blues and greys look nice (accuracy I don't know).
It looks crisper with more light, but did not like the overcast sample in the ebay listing. If you can find full Sunny high contrast (shade sun) shots with motion to shoot that would be good to judge it. Apart from motion like the traffic scenes shot on the Aiptek, waving tress and water are also good torture tests.

It has some blocking the gravel to the lower mid right and lower left, even though this is a staticy shot. So if you can find the highest bit rate 1080p and 720p60 modes to test, that would be good to see if this goes away.

If you think that was tough, you should see how I finish my Sanyo HD1010 footage review over in the Sanyo thread. That has 12mb/s data-rate for 1080p progressive, and it is surprising. I don't expect the Digilife to do as well, probably not the Aiptek either, but I expected better.

I think it is time for a compression/picture quality shoot-off between the Aiptek and the Sanyo?
Wayne12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 24, 2008, 6:30 AM   #17
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 17
Default

Wayne12 wrote:
Quote:
Their seems to be some interpolation problem on the cars headlight rim in the upper left to lower right diagonal (and other diagonals). We used to see such a thing on the Sanyo HD1.
Quote:
I think it is time for a compression/picture quality shoot-off between the Aiptek and the Sanyo?
What looks like interpolation/aliasingon the headlight is actually the lens pattern ridges on the glass itself and is meant to be their. But yeah, this certianly won't (and I wouldn't expect it to) stand up against a non hybrid Sanyo that is 10x the price. Thats a bit like comparing a CanonEOS 5Dwith an L glass lens to a Point and shoot Nikon Coolpix.

[Edit] I try and post a .png/.bmp of a crop tonight as the crop above is a 59k jpg from the original 6mb .bmp version. :-)
Wowcow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 26, 2008, 12:36 AM   #18
Junior Member
 
SuperMotorrad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1
Default

Hi guys, greetings from New Zealand!

I'm seriously considering this cam for a couple of applications. The first is as a general handycam (wow, no kidding!), the otheris using the av-in to capture video from an external bullet cam (for motorsport - bikes and cars, and ski/snowboarding/mountainbiking). I realise it won't capture in hd in this mode, but I'm thinking it will probably be good enough... Does anyone know if it captures 60fps in this mode?

I've been thinking about using a pmp (specifically this one -PMP400 http://hdmp4.com/PMP+specification) for the video capture, but am concerned about vibration/shock to the hard drive - comments?

I'm also thinking of picking upone of these cams for work - for monitoring product tests. Has anyone tried/know if it's possible to connect an external hard drive up to extend the recording time?

Also (it's ok, I'll shut up soon!), is this the best cam for the job? It seems to be pretty much identical to the Aiptek Action HD... is there actually a difference in function or is it just cosmetic?

Thanks.
SuperMotorrad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 26, 2008, 8:21 AM   #19
Senior Member
 
Wayne12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,071
Default

Wowcow

I thought I saw this on other diagonals in the same direction, and was not on the other headlight. But if you are sure it is not there, that is good.

Any good footage samples are welcome. What's the highest data rates for 1080p and 720p. Is it 72060 or just p30?

Currently hoping to get onto DXG footage samples, some of the better cameras look promising.
Wayne12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Jun 28, 2008, 7:54 AM   #20
Senior Member
 
adalfa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Denmarkian
Posts: 266
Default

Hi Wowcow,

Congrats on your new hybrid cam but I'm so anxious to see video and pic samples from this cam(ddv1080hd). If you have any clips please do post.
adalfa is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 8:39 PM.