Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital Cameras (Point and Shoot) > Hybrid Still/Movie/MP3 Digicams

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Oct 20, 2008, 9:47 AM   #101
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 9
Default

Private Idaho wrote:
Quote:
Just read the manual.

The audio on the Fuji model is crappy... 11.025 Khz @ 8-bit... just awful; you'd have to supplement this with an external recorder... such as a Sony MiniDisc recorder to get decent sound.
And this has to do with the Sanyo how? J/K, but you should probably start a new topic on the fuiji considering this forum's about the sanyo. I know some forum sites prefer each forum to stay on topic to a certain degree. Say someone wants to find info on the fuji. They'd never expect a forum with the title "Sanyo VPC-HD100~??" to have Fuji (or kodak) info. Just a head up.

And just for good measure, I wish they'd added image stailization for video and got rid of the useless mp3 and voice recorder functions. At least in my opinion.
aceMKII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20, 2008, 9:51 AM   #102
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,153
Default

Found the Kodak V1073 PDF manual here:

http://www.kodak.com/global/plugins/...xUG_GLB_en.pdf

But there's not a mention of the audio specifications.

Private Idaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20, 2008, 9:55 AM   #103
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,153
Default

Well, can't you understand that it relates very much to the Sanyo model?

Those who have suggested that hybrids such as the Sanyo and the Aiptek models are no match for these new Fuji and Kodak cameras have apparently not considered audio.

Most of the $200 hybrids record stereo audio at 48 Khz @ 16-bit.

Contrast that to the low-quality 8-bit, 11.025 Khz audio recorded by these Fuji and -- possibly -- the Kodak cameras and you immediately begin to understand that all of these models force the consumer to compromise in some way.
Private Idaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20, 2008, 9:56 AM   #104
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 584
Default

The Fuji is awfully similar to the new Kodak Z1015, which, IMO, is a step backwards for Kodak from their Z1012. All these cameras are apparently made in factories which apply slight customization to a standard design. The problem with the stabilization of this Fuji, and the Z1015, is that they use sensor-shift optical stabilization for still photography, which apparently does not work for HD video modes. Both Kodak and Fuji had to kludge an EIS mode, losing some of the field-of-view in the process.

The Kodak Z1012 IS has OIS and stereo mics, the V1073 OIS and mono, but they both use a very old audio compression scheme, ADPCM (I wrote a paper on this scheme back in 1974). Its specs are bad but it works just fine, as you can see from the Vimeo video I linked above, which was made just with the V1073 and the Z1012 being handlheld by friends, and not very steadily either. I used Deshaker and Virtualdub in post-prod to improve stabilization of the image in the video.

http://www.vimeo.com/1811379


(the occasional harshness of audio in the video clip is due to the amplification system in the hall, and the different locations of the two cameras relative to the speaker system). Note that neither camera audio overloads... although the Z1012 'pumps' from the bass guitar in the 'disco' scenes at the end of the clip.

Trevmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20, 2008, 9:59 AM   #105
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,153
Default

Trevmar,

What are the specific "Khz" and "bit" values for the Kodak audio?
Private Idaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20, 2008, 10:06 AM   #106
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 584
Default

(Adaptive Delta PCM) ADPCM is not as simple as that. It is one of the early audio compression schemes, and is based on the way that the ear hears sound. What happens is that only a small dynamic range is used at any time, but that range is stepped through all possible subsets of the 16 bit audio dynamic range by an "adaptive" algorithm. When the algorithm is stepping, the ear can't hear the errors, as the signal triangulates. It looks bad on the oscilloscope, but sounds excellent.

Here is a review of a reverberation unit I built in 1972 which gives you some of the detail about how the delta schemes work. This reviewer decided to test it against a tape recorder paradigm, as computers and digital technology were not really very well established back in 1972:?

http://trevormarshall.com/old_papers...ration-ETI.pdf


Trevmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20, 2008, 10:08 AM   #107
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,153
Default

By the way, the crummy 11.025 Khz value is the same value utilized by the Aiptek ISDV 2.4.

I'm looking at the PDF manual for the Sanyo VPC-HD100 and no specifics are mentioned about the "bit" or "Khz" values.

But I suspect the VPC-HD100 records at 48 Khz and 16-bit.

Those of you who have it can confirm... perhaps... ?
Private Idaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20, 2008, 10:11 AM   #108
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,153
Default

Trevmar,

It's really just as simple as I stated.

If you have the camera, just take one of your clips and open it in Quicktime.

Then -- if you're on a Windows PC -- click WINDOW > SHOW MOVIE INSPECTOR.

That will make a properties read-out appear.

It should list the "Khz" and the "bit" values for your Kodak audio.

The same steps can be followed for the clips recorded by the Sanyo VPC-HD100.
Private Idaho is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20, 2008, 10:18 AM   #109
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 584
Default

Dear Idaho,
Technology is not always as simple as it sounds. Audio technology is even more complex, as anybody who has actually designed an MP3 or AAC compressor knows only too well. Believe me, the audio from the Kodak units sounds fine. I have never tested the audio from the Fuji.

In every case, the limitation on the audio quality is the microphone itself, and the volume compression algorithms being employed to prevent overload. Whether it is ADPCM or AAC really is tough for the ear to hear.

Don't get me wrong - I have a Rode SVM and Zoom H2 and all sorts of high-end audio recording equipment for when sound really matters. But for a hand-held point-and-shoot the ADPCM works well enough.

http://www.rode.com.au/microphone.ph...StereoVideoMic

Trevmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 20, 2008, 10:24 AM   #110
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 98
Default

I'm the one who started this thread and from what I've read, this new Sanyo has disappointed a few buyers here, who have purchased them. I started it, as it was an "unannounced" camera that no one seemed to know about and thus the excitement.
Always on the lookout for HD cameras I had also come across the new Fuji S2000HD and from everything I've sampled, it has produced the best HD footage I've seen. I've always considered the DXG595 as the "best" of these inexpensive HD camcorders but was excited to see this inexpensive $259 Fuji S2000HD producing video that has been superior to everything else in this same "inexpensive" category. It may not have the audio capabilities but I'd prefer to sacrifice audio over video- not to mention many NLE editors remove the audio and put in their own soundtracks in video (think wedding videography, nature etc~~~.) I did this with this video I just shot on Saturday- which was a cousins wedding and I just shot quick handheld video- nothing special but I shot this and e-mailed it to her as a "cool" e-mail to be shared by a spectator.
http://www.stevenunez.com/videos/Diana'sWeddingS.mov

I have never shot a wedding and video is a hobby for me- nothing else....I mostly shoot my airbrush videos for my personal site:
http://www.stevenunez.com/videos.html

Anyways, just wanted to share a gem of a find in the Fuji's video capabilities- but this is a Sanyo thread so we should keep the VPC info going on.
Thanks everyone...........continue:

(If you guys really want to see awesome HD video, you guys have to check out the Casio EX-F1 high-speed camera- I have one and it shoots phenomenal HD video and has a mic-in jack for mics!!! I don't use it as a digital camera, I use it exclusively for video and it's awesome!!!
It's $999 so it's a bit pricey but it's a genuine digital camera, high-speed digital camera (60 fps- fastest in the world) and video camera that can shoot up to 1200 frames per second (video) and produces stellar HD video at both 720p and 1080!)
SteveNunez is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 1:30 PM.