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Old Oct 9, 2008, 4:32 PM   #11
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Private Idaho...do you know if the cg65 has the same quality as the cg6 because I really liked the cat video they put up...that doesn't mean i'm buying the sanyo... I just am curious because I know that the cg65 records in a new format.. and I want to know what are the advantages and disadvantages of mgeg2 vs mpeg4 vs h.264
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Old Oct 9, 2008, 5:24 PM   #12
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hmarkvitz wrote:
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Private Idaho...do you know if the cg65 has the same quality as the cg6 because I really liked the cat video they put up...that doesn't mean i'm buying the sanyo... I just am curious because I know that the cg65 records in a new format.. and I want to know what are the advantages and disadvantages of mgeg2 vs mpeg4 vs h.264
I tell you what, let me grab my cg65 and do some shooting on my way to work now. I will post the flick tonight, encoded at 2Mbps (which is about half of the AVERAGE bitrate with this cam). Wait and see
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Old Oct 9, 2008, 6:00 PM   #13
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It's simple.

H.264 is what the Sanyo VPC-CG65 utilizes.

It's more efficient than MPEG-2, meaning you can get almost the same quality at about half the data rate, in theory.

But while the Sanyos boast a codec with greater efficiency, one also has to understand that MPEG-2 has been around for a much longer time and is, therefore, more highly optimized because the engineers have had time to perfect the encoders.

More important, the optics and the sound recording quality of the Panasonic are considerably better.

The only difference between the VPC-CG65 and the VPC-CG6 is...

1. VPC-CG65 utilizes H.264/MPEG-4
2. VPC-CG6 utilizes plain old MPEG-4.

In theory, the VPC-CG65 should boast higher image quality than the VPC-CG6. But does it? I've read many posts from those who've purchased both and, frankly, they don't seem to notice that big of a difference.

All I can tell you is I compared the Sanyo VPC-CG6 to a Panasonic SDR-S10 using a ***live*** connection to a very large, interlaced CRT (tube) TV and it wasn't even close... the Panasonic camcorder kicked the Sanyo camcorder's fanny on that type of screen. Could the VPC-CG65 have done better? I doubt it because the main problem of the Sanyos relates not to their codec but to the quality of their optics.

Try it.

Go to a store; find a salesperson willing to play ball. Have him hook up a Panasonic SDR-SW20 to a large CRT and then compare that to the picture of a Sanyo VPC-CG6/VPC-CG65. You'll see what I mean.:G

If you're only going to show your video on YouTube, however, then I'd say go for either one because they're really not going to look that much different after being transcoded for use on YouTube.

If I were going to record video/audio that would wind up on DVD discs for playback in DVD players, I would choose the Panasonic... without hesitation.
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Old Oct 9, 2008, 6:11 PM   #14
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One other thing I've noticed.

The Panasonics boast superior dynamic range.

In other words, if you look at the video provided -- the cat video -- you'll see how the whites tend to "blow out" and contrast greatly to darker colors.

One of the things that pleases consumers -- as opposed to professionals -- is color saturation.

In this regard, the Sanyos allow you to jack up the color saturation.

If you buy a Panasonic, you'll see far less color saturation; many consumers would say the colors look "dull."

Of course, anybody who wishes to increase the saturation of the Panasonic video can pull the clips into any non-linear video editing program and ramp up the saturation.

Here's how I would summarize:

For Web/YouTube, go with Sanyo.

For DVD and higher quality playback, go with Panasonic.

Remember, the Panasonic video is clearly MPEG-2 *interlaced* video; DVDs use MPEG-2.
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Old Oct 9, 2008, 7:30 PM   #15
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You have convinced me to go for sw20... I will record a video and put it on vimeo.com when I get the cam.
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Old Oct 9, 2008, 8:39 PM   #16
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A warning before you buy.

Neither the Panasonics nor the Sanyos are perfect when it comes to audio recording.

The Sanyos seem to feature an "automatic gain control" (AGC) that ramps up the sensitivity of the microphone -- manifested as a hissing sound -- when one records in a quiet environment. Likewise, the Sanyos seem to be able to dampen sounds that are way too loud. So the hissing noise can be problematic for some people.

The Panasonic doesn't seem to have this problem. In addition, the Panasonic features a "zoom" microphone that actually works fairly well.

But both camcorders have problems with noise while recording in these ways:

1. If you do a lot of handheld shooting, then you might like the Sanyo better because you can hold the Sanyo in your hand and wave the camcorder back and forth and up and down and you won't hear any auto-focus noise on your video recordings. With the Panasonic, you *must* keep the camcorder on a tripod or you will surely hear the noise of the auto-focus mechanism on all of your video recordings. It's a subtle sound, but you'll surely hear it if you listen for it.

2. If you do a lot of zooming, then you might like the Panasonic better because when you zoom with the Panasonic, you won't hear the noise of the zoom on your recordings. With the Sanyo VPC-CG6, if one dares to zoom while shooting/recording, it never fails: the noise of the zoom is recorded every single time.

So both makes have weaknesses and tradeoffs.
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Old Oct 11, 2008, 2:40 PM   #17
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I have such bad luck.... I went to the store to get the cam and the sw20 was out of stock. So I decided to go with the S10..... Then I found out that there are two models.... the s10p1 is selling for 200 flat and the s10 is selling for 280.... I want to know if you know the difference between the two camcorders because the only thing I noticed is that the S10 brings 2gb. Please help on this.... I am really excited to buy my cam and can't make my mind up.. Thanks.
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Old Oct 11, 2008, 3:21 PM   #18
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As far as I know, the S10 and the S10P1 are identical.

Go for the one that costs the least.

I have the S10P1.
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Old Oct 28, 2008, 5:53 PM   #19
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Panasonic SDR-S10(P1) video samples on YouTube:

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lcwncs05BE
2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0tTJWl48-4
3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3W_oTz5k7s

Recorded Sunday, October 26, 2008 in Boise, Idaho, USA.
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Old Oct 29, 2008, 6:14 PM   #20
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I like Panasonic products. If you are looking at a Panasonic DVD camcorder then I think this would make a nice alternative, the advantage being that you are not limited to the 1.4GB of a miniDVD for a continuous video. A pity they only have EIS and not OIS.

I specified a Panasonic DVD camcorder to my brother-in-law specifically because it had the best reviews and the all important OIS. I tended to end up being the cameraman (which I don't mind as I enjoy it) but said that he needed to get his own as I won't be there when he goes on trips etc. I said that's what you need to be filming with the kids, not just the once a year birthday parties etc. I mean, once you have filmed one birthday party etc, they all look the same to me, except everyones a little older!

I was looking at getting one of these Panasonic SD camcorders myself but I already have a Sanyo C40 which to my eyes is similar enough in quality for me not to justify spending the money and of course I still prefer even the 'low quality' HD output of my HDV178 etc.

Of course one advantage of these cameras is that mpeg2 used to be easier to edit than mpeg4 but that's not as big a problem now as it used to be.

Private idaho, you know those youtube clips you put up, have a sort of nice soft cinefilm quality to them, at least they do to me, especially the one of the rose!
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