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Old Nov 9, 2008, 12:37 PM   #11
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Yes we are waiting for that to happen.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"I know we can operate while the cam is on playback and record, and goesdirectly to the sd card.

style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #000000"Only way we'll get Hd is to have firmware writen to the Av input, if iti s hardware or software. it is already hardware
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Old Nov 9, 2008, 10:27 PM   #12
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Well, that tunnel cam video does look pretty good. I like the focal length of his cam, I wonder how many mm it is ? It looked just wide enough, at least for that footage.
Thanks for the sample link.

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Old Nov 11, 2008, 9:28 AM   #13
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Patience, my friends.....affordable HD bullet cameras and portable recorders ARE on the way, and sooner than you think.

The SD quality produced by a bullet camera and Aiptek are not too bad, but yes it is limited to 640x480 and 30fps. Then you have to provide battery or 12V power for the bullet camera and mic, and the 3.5mm connector that plugs into the Aiptek is not very secure (it can break off on the PCB, ask me how I know haha), and it does not have very much friction to keep it in place.

Watch out for the tripod mount base/insert on the Aiptek models and Jazz models (yup, I broke those off too)...a rubber band type wrap around the top of the camcorder and the base of the mount helps keep everything in place or as an extra bit of "insurance".

Have you thought about other bullet-camera-recorders like from Cam-FX, ChaseCam, VioSport, or others? They provide the 12V power for the cameras (no extra cables), are small in package, and have onboard microphones. They are a bit on the expensive side, but are purpose-built to take a few crashes, etc. but do record at high bitrates (10mb/sec) for SD, which actually makes for pretty good quality video, at least a few leaps above the Aiptek's SD input. Link-- http://www.cam-fx.com/Products/proDVRpackage.htm

Try this for a good handlebar mount-- http://www.cam-fx.com/Products/cameraMounts.htm (Clamp Mount, half way down the page).
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Old Nov 11, 2008, 12:38 PM   #14
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Thanks for the links.
I have also learned from other posts at this forum that the Aiptek actually records at something less than SD's 640 x 480 :sad:.
First , it throws away 1/2 the picture by only using one field , making the vertical size 240. Also, it apparently grabs the horizontal at 320 across.
So the Sony 580 based cam I ordered on ebay won't live up to it's potential when I use an Aiptek to record. Darn.
The 'tunnel cam' video link a few posts above was recorded by an Archos pocket dvr, maybe that unit does record the full frame , explaining why it looked pretty good?

I would be happy with good SD, remember, DVD's are SD after all.
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Old Nov 11, 2008, 1:02 PM   #15
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the Aip A-HD and Go are 740x480 and the Aip A-HD+ and action are 640x480

In av input. Adric22 somehow figured out that they do not record in that manner

if it is interpolated as well. as we record Live we are in a Mono sound, if we record av we are in stereo sound. but interpolated video. the res at least half the size.

If you are looking for 16:9 the Aip A-Hd or Go

if you are lookingfor 4:3 then theAction or A-HD=

also remember the newer cams like the HS-HD and HD1 are no longer AV input they will not have this.

just a lil info. I came a long way and tend to losesome info along its path. so frgive me
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Old Nov 11, 2008, 6:17 PM   #16
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Try the Canon TX1,m strap one to each side of your helmet and figure out how to sink them for 3D . I forget the name of the settings alteration software, but I think it has sync functions now, the guys around here might remember the name.

Alternatively, go to the Elphel website, talk to one of the guys, about using the flash version of their 353 security camera (small but no so small) this will give better compression then the Canon.

Canon has an AVCHD flash card camera, not as small as the elphel I think, but doable, 24mbit/s h264.
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Old Nov 12, 2008, 12:33 AM   #17
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The TX1 sure looks good, but it seems they use antique compression on the video, and the 'definition' is missing from the high definition. Anyone compare one directly against the el cheapo aiptek ? No AV input at all on them as well. Oh well.


I'll take apart my A-HD+ tonight to see if it's worth testing with an extension cable to the sensor head. Who knows, maybe I can get a 3 ft extension to work? That would be perfect for me.

EDIT: I took it apart, and removed the sensor board for the Micron sensor. There is a 36 pin ( if I counted right ) tiny connector the connects the sensor board to the rest of the main board. No way I can get an extension ribbon cable in there. Way too many pins.
The 'camera' looks a lot like a regular board cam housing, with a squarish plastic housing. The macro setting also throws a tiny toggle switch to tell the cam that it is in the macro position. The lens is a regular 12mm screw mount like other little board cams have. So a lens swap should not be too hard. The infinity focus will need to be reset, they use a drop of glue to fix it down.

How many mm is the current lens ? I seem to remember seeing 6.7 mm in the exif data from a still.
So maybe I'd like to find a 3 to 4 mm lens to replace it with.




Wayne12 wrote:
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Try the Canon TX1,m strap one to each side of your helmet and figure out how to sink them for 3D . I forget the name of the settings alteration software, but I think it has sync functions now, the guys around here might remember the name.

Alternatively, go to the Elphel website, talk to one of the guys, about using the flash version of their 353 security camera (small but no so small) this will give better compression then the Canon.

Canon has an AVCHD flash card camera, not as small as the elphel I think, but doable, 24mbit/s h264.
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Old Nov 12, 2008, 9:38 AM   #18
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I placed a request to Elphel for information on this application last night, here is the response--

"Hi James,

I am sorry, but our current camera is not suitable for your application. We have everything you need, but the CMOS sensor is not suitable for filming in high vibration environment. The CMOS sensor we use is ERS (http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php?tit...olling_Shutter). We have examples of how it look like here: http://wiki.elphel.com/index.php?title=GeoTagging#Video


Filming at lower resolution the artifact is smaller and may be OK with some post-processing. In the future we may also adapt some CCD to our camera, but it's not yet the case. (The only compatible Kodak CCD is not for filming, still photos only)"

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Old Nov 12, 2008, 11:53 AM   #19
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they are talking about the rolling shutter effect. The A-AD cams have this as well. It is not that bad, and much of it can be corrected by software. A ccd will smear on vibration as well, but it just won't distort the image as much.
To me, the greatly increased resolution that allows much more effective software stabilization is worth the trade off of some more distortion due to rolling shutter.
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Old Nov 13, 2008, 3:14 AM   #20
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lesdit wrote:
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The TX1 sure looks good, but it seems they use antique compression on the video, and the 'definition' is missing from the high definition. Anyone compare one directly against the el cheapo aiptek ? No AV input at all on them as well. Oh well.
That compression is better for high motion than the h264 because the high data-rate allows it not to use inter frame compression. I have seen comparison between the camera and the Sanyo (which one I can't remember, camcorder info did it) but it was night and day. The Sanyo sacrificed detail at the lower data-rate, the tx1 had lots more. The newer h264 ambarella site probably does better than the Sanyo, but i don't think it would be better than the Tx1. the only downside (apart from exposure and noise, a ND filter would solve this and you are in bright sunlight).

Now, I forgot a few cameras. The Kodak z16, is probably the best at a cheap rice. 720p60 at 9mb/s ambarella, and 6mb/s at 720p30. The sensor apparently is OK, but I still see exposure. I am thinking of getting one myself (as all the Asian manufacturers seem ton be offering poorer data-rates, even dropping 720p60. I do have deep contacts inside the hardware industry, and sometimes I talk with them. Expect 10mpixel, expect better soon, and I am also still waiting for the bullet cams. One thing is for certain, ambarella can do the bullet, because it is such a low powered solution.

Now, back to it, the older Samsung hmx10c 720p30/60 camera, the Aiptek HSHD, I think these use the same sensor as the Kodak above. The Toshiba Gigashot k series, is another ambarella original, and does 720p60/30 (the Toshiba and Samsung form pal 50/25p markets apparently do 50/25p).

The Micron sensors that Elphel use, they overrun the readout to reduce the rolling shutter, and a lot of them probably have the snap shot feature, that reduces it even further. Ask them about that. Andrey is the owner, and he is one of the few people that could advise you out of hand, tell him Wayne sent you from the Cinema camera projects. Older Micron sensors were a problem, but I think he latest cameras use sensors that could get around this. You can use software to get around this too.
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