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Old Nov 12, 2008, 9:16 AM   #1
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I am again trying to decide which camera to buy. I am planning to do some driving videos myself, camera attached with GorillaPod SLR to passanger seat, so this is somewhat important thing when I am deciding which HD camcorder/camera to buy. I have noticed that there is rolling shutter problems with cameras which has optical image stabilizer like in Canon. So I am wondering is Canon's OIS enhancing rolling shutter shake? Some videos Canon is causing lot of shaking but in some handheld videos there isn't much shaking.

Canon HF100 race car shaking: http://www.vimeo.com/920276

In video description there is noticement that even Panasonic SD9 wasn't very good with 3CCD and OIS put together!? Though there isn't any sample video to prove this.

Canon HF100 handheld inside car: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDIBMvb885A

This video is much better, though not racing video

Aiptek Z600 race car shaking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJQUFkdmt8k

Aiptek is managing pretty well this kind of car shaking, I wonder what kind of attachement is used, judging from video it looks like there isn't anykind of additional stabilizer used.

Panasonic HDC-SD9 race car shaking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPYza0KO1eM

somekind of Sticky pod used

Panasonic HDC-SD9 car shaking: http://www.vimeo.com/1546006

Not much shaking here even when handheld!

Sanyo HD-1010 car shaking: http://www.vimeo.com/1594562

shot from handheld inside car and it looks like video is shaking a lot

Sanyo HD-1010 car shaking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv4x2_EizyA

same here but even more shaking

Sanyo HD-1000 car shaking: http://www.vimeo.com/649764

It looks like somekind of stabilization system is used, car is shaking but picture isn't!?


So it doesn't matter what kind of camera you buy, they all shake and you get bad videos when camera is attached to car without anykind of Sticky pod. But Canon HF100 is performing quite good, I guess Panasonic SD9 is also good.

Aiptek Z600 has low price and low quality stamp all over, but it holds quite good in car shaking and it is very small sized indeed.

Sanyo isn't very good unless you use additional stabilization.

Aiptek Z600 still has pretty bad audio clipping, though motor noise is very loud in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_Tm3IBK82w

I think only thing which could prevent this noise would be automatic gain control system (Sanyo) or manual mic volume control (external mic).

Panasonic is clearly winner in video stablization and preventing rolling shutter with 3CCD's. It is easy to make professional looking car videos with Panasonic and without any kind of Sticky pod acessories. But making car videos is only 1-5 % of my camera usage. :G



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Old Nov 12, 2008, 10:57 AM   #2
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I think that with the higher resolutions and the CMOS ERS, there will always be some element of "shake" that will be apparent. Just like people trying to take handheld video while zooming in, any movement is greatly exaggerated without some type of OIS or EIS.

Also, many people have good results using a smoothing filter like with VirtualDub on their "racing" videos, with fairly dramatic results. I think the video of the yellow autocross car is utilizing that, I find it very hard to believe that that video was shot with the SD9 and the filmtools mount (the mount is excellent, but the camera chassis itself is large enough to create its own separate frequency than the mount, which is different than the car, etc. creating more vibration). It is an excellent video though, it is very hard to get good smooth video on an autocross car.

Here is a recent, professionally-shot and produced video. The in-car scenes have horrible shaking, almost unavoidable with large camcorders and the application (crank the volume, it is a cool video in its own right)-- http://video.kenblockracing.com/embed/small/204/9183

I shoot my autocross and racing videos with a bullet camera and a Standard Def solid-state recorder. I have found that between packaging constraints (camera too big for where I want to place it), weatherproofing, and ERS issues it has just not been worth it.

Here is a low-res sample from a year ago, notice zero shake (but the camera only weighs one ounce!)(disregard the lighting, it was barely sunrise)-- http://vimeo.com/1923622

On the other side, here is the Jazz 178 mounted to the dash, in 720p mode (but uploaded in SD, Vimeo is now placing limits)-- http://vimeo.com/2019846

A better HD clip, but short, on the dash-- http://vimeo.com/1956715



The problem with the Jazz and the Aiptek is that I keep breaking off the tripod mounting hole in the bottom of the camera, so no matter what great solid mount I use (suction, headrest, roll cage, etc.) the camera will still flop around horribly. I put together a mount last night that will actually cradle the body of the camcorder rather than use the mounting stud, and at least bench tests have gone quite well. I am going to shoot some street video today with the Jazz, my Aiptek is dead.
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Old Nov 12, 2008, 12:37 PM   #3
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For futher reference, this was shot with a simple suction mount on the back of a racing seat, with the Aiptek A-HD+ at 60fps, looks very good to me-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiov69bZeWE&fmt=18

This was shot with a bullet camera and MPEG2 recorder at 8mbs, note lack of vibration-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs1Rz8pQnsE%fmt=18
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Old Nov 12, 2008, 2:01 PM   #4
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I foin that a AF (auto focus is not good, shakes the lens,senser to hell this will be for hte Aiptek Action and Go, a fixed focus will be the better choice. if a manual focus cannot beset then shakiness will occure on certain models.

a ton of vibration will be on the windshield, and any tripod mounted furtheraway from the closest point of attachment.

I am not a pro, but get a great shot in the head rest nothing more it acts asa damper anddoes a great job. just my two cents
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Old Nov 12, 2008, 3:03 PM   #5
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These videos really encourages me to by Aiptek again, it is low cost camera with low quality also, but I am doing only car traveling videos not racing, but still shaking must me avoided, becouse all my old handheld Aiptek car videos are too shaky. Only about 1-5 % of my camera usage is car traveling videos, I have to also consider other aspects when buying new camera.

Your A-HD+ video looks very good, what kind of suction mount do you use, is it expensive?

And Panasonic SD-9 isn't hybrid in anyway it is only for video, I am mainly searching for small hybrid camera for vacations and carrying in my pocket. Aiptek Z600 or Sanyo HD1010 or HD1000 could be my choice. It is really annoying to change camera when taking couple of pictures after taking video. Aiptek's electrical image stabilizer can't be better than Sanyo's, but judging from these driving videos Aiptek has better stabilization!

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For futher reference, this was shot with a simple suction mount on the back of a racing seat, with the Aiptek A-HD+ at 60fps, looks very good to me-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiov69bZeWE&fmt=18

This was shot with a bullet camera and MPEG2 recorder at 8mbs, note lack of vibration-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs1Rz8pQnsE%fmt=18
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Old Nov 12, 2008, 3:31 PM   #6
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Mounts are cheap, <$50. I use these ones-- http://www.cam-fx.com/Products/cameraMounts.htm

I just put together another mount that uses the suction base and knuckle, but has a rubber-coated clamp that looks like a mini-vise. I keep breaking the tripod mounts off of my Aiptek and Jazz cameras because they are so cheap (the Jazz has nothing more than a tiny pcb screw holding the tripod mount in!!), so the clamp has worked better for me in testing. I need to put some videos up of it.


Filmtools also sells some larger vacuum-assisted suction mounts, but they are much more expensive.
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Old Nov 12, 2008, 3:38 PM   #7
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Maybe I will first test with GorillaPod SLR, but first I have to decide what camera to buy :-)

What kind of mount there is in Sanyo is it metal?
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Old Nov 14, 2008, 10:54 AM   #8
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Here is a sample clip of the Jazz HDV178 (which I am disliking more and more, unfortunately) with the headrest mount with clamping cradle--

http://vimeo.com/2242265



Pic of the mount:

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