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Old Jun 12, 2010, 12:14 PM   #1031
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This 60 frame a second thing is an absolute disaster in 50hz countries, it is high time the manufacturers introduced 50p modes as standard. They cost very little to add, would get rid of the lowlight lighting to frame synchronization problems, even slightly increasing the performance over 60p cameras, and would increase compression performance (which is needed).

Apart from low light noise/performance (and daytime noise), and noise columns, the fixed pattern noise is an issue, particularly in 1080p mode. Fixed pattern noise is often fixed in camera by a image mask (and I can guess that it changes over the range so multiple images could be used as ramp points). Latitude also suffers a little outside, it could be better to properly expose under the tree at the same time as around the tree in the middle of the day.

Fishy, one thing I noticed in the civil war scene on Steves review, as well as in my shots, is spotty grain in the uniforms, particularly during movement (as well as the strong strobing and double image ghosting in the first clip I took). We saw this in the Sanyo HD10010, which they managed to get rid of in the HD2000. This might be sensor, it might be not enough compression, I haven't looked into it. It makes things, and stills from video frames look worse, if compression isn't causing it, it would not be good for it.

I cannot now recommend any but the best 60p cameras in PAL markets, to overcome the lighting problems, unless inside shooting is not important (I get lots of noise inside during the day) or they want a really cheap camera (under $200AU). get a Sanyo HD2000, or get a descent 50p/i camera.

What might be better is a alternative system for handling 50hz lighting they could make the camera to only activate the 50hz scheme (if already selected in menu) when it senses a strong 50hz light source, allowing it to be automatically off in darker places (I notice that 50hz light is not much a problem when you are in the next room that is dimly lit by it). But it maybe easier to activate 50p video modes.
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Old Jun 12, 2010, 1:34 PM   #1032
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Default Further testing - Bright room

Good news, though not enough. I tried the camera with the new settings in bright room light (twin 30w fluorescents, and single 30w fluorescent). Still too much noise, but a lot less. NTSC no EIS/FACE produced least noise, with Pal and no EIS/face wasn't too far behind (though there is more noise when you move), with no strobing. This is to be expected, as the camera rides the shutter as well as the gain as part of exposure, so there is less need for a long shutter the brighter it gets. I suspect that the PAL shutter is long enough and it is increasing gain. The NTSC mode is going for really long shutters, and hence the clearest pictures but a lot of blur when you move. But I am describing the bright parts of the room with direct exposure.

Altogether there still is substantial nose especially in the dimly lit rooms), and probable a lot when window lit in the day.

I notice that with my tweaking, the level of "brightness" on the video is similar to what i am seeing (though this is looking through the doorway from the 60w fluorescent room (using tri color extra bright fluorescents too) and not further along the room where it is much darker.

I forgot, I suppose you could sort of call PAL a "shutter priority mode" at this level

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Old Jun 12, 2010, 6:46 PM   #1033
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hmm Gues I missed this out LOl

battery must be fresh in order to use cam and plugged into a pc / mac in order to download files. ifa dead batt or missing you will not be able to transfer. Did i miss this?

I amsure you can turn cam on via the ext power source and cable, just not USB. lol
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Old Jun 13, 2010, 12:14 AM   #1034
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I don't use EIS & I don't use face Det. Just learn to hold steady and avoid back light. Simple & get good results every time...
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Old Jun 13, 2010, 4:12 AM   #1035
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Maxhuey,

How much battery life increased by switching off EIS and Face detection in your ZI8?
Do these features alter the bitrate?


I think it is better to switch off EIS during video recording to save some battery life.

As I have allready described in this thread a method to directly import .MOV videos recorded by ZI8 to Virtualdub (a light but a powerfull video editing or encoding software) and later you can stabilise the video using the Deshaker filter (can be customised according to your needs) while you edit/trim your videos and finally save it to a much reliable .AVI format.

With regards,
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Old Jun 13, 2010, 6:14 AM   #1036
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you get with EIS off andface off 1 hr 20 min, max. with in WVGA mode only you get 1hr 57 min

if one read this whole thread. lol
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Old Jun 13, 2010, 9:01 AM   #1037
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Default one simple advice to make good video and its free!!!

Put it this way, I don't get into the nitty-gritty of the inner works, Bit rate and what not do not concern me as much anymore (than when I was in my younger years). I simply concentrate my time and energy in shooting good video, learn from watching movies on how the camera shoot to make good effect - **98% of the time, camera does not move, the subject does - I get good results everytime, and when I said good results, "good" is comparable to my buddie's shots and he is a cameraman for Universal Studio and a few other private movie producers.

I have original battery and a spare battery, original battery usually lasted more than a days shooting of home video, typically 20~50 individual takes ranging from 5 seconds to 2 minutes. I hardly ever get to use the second battery in the same day. If you turn you cam on and off throughout the day, total battery life is about 30 minutes compare to just leave it on. spare battery life is about 80% of original.

** this is where most people failed in shooting video, just watch thier video, they move, pan, zoom the cam to no avail...
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Old Jun 13, 2010, 10:11 AM   #1038
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Hey you talking to Me. Saprano's

so I could not help but to come foward , and show my true colors.

Yeah maxhuey not @ you. what thers expect from a cam that costed 130.01 2 one time
a red scarlet, a panavisio, etc, etc.

here is a video;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drMLkH4j9Kk




Quote:
Originally Posted by maxhuey View Post
Put it this way, I don't get into the nitty-gritty of the inner works, Bit rate and what not do not concern me as much anymore (than when I was in my younger years). I simply concentrate my time and energy in shooting good video, learn from watching movies on how the camera shoot to make good effect - **98% of the time, camera does not move, the subject does - I get good results everytime, and when I said good results, "good" is comparable to my buddie's shots and he is a cameraman for Universal Studio and a few other private movie producers.

I have original battery and a spare battery, original battery usually lasted more than a days shooting of home video, typically 20~50 individual takes ranging from 5 seconds to 2 minutes. I hardly ever get to use the second battery in the same day. If you turn you cam on and off throughout the day, total battery life is about 30 minutes compare to just leave it on. spare battery life is about 80% of original.

** this is where most people failed in shooting video, just watch thier video, they move, pan, zoom the cam to no avail...
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Old Jun 13, 2010, 10:12 AM   #1039
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishycomics View Post
hmm Gues I missed this out LOl

battery must be fresh in order to use cam and plugged into a pc / mac in order to download files. ifa dead batt or missing you will not be able to transfer. Did i miss this?
Fishy were you talking to me?

Quote:
Originally Posted by maxhuey View Post
Put it this way, I don't get into the nitty-gritty of the inner works, Bit rate and what not do not concern me as much anymore (than when I was in my younger years). I simply concentrate my time and energy in shooting good video, learn from watching movies on how the camera shoot to make good effect - **98% of the time, camera does not move, the subject does - I get good results everytime, and when I said good results, "good" is comparable to my buddie's shots and he is a cameraman for Universal Studio and a few other private movie producers.
Do you know that they prefer to keep still in part because the 24 frames a second does not handle motion well, and it looks bad. Sometimes in scenes moving will still make your film better. On TV it is different (though I hate the jerky hand held stuff). Various high end TV programs these days have a technique that we came up with years ago to give a 3D feel to the scene. You move very slowly around the scene a little to rotate the subjects and the scene around them a little. I think Stargate SG1 was one of the first in my viewing regime I noticed doing this. I suppose it is not so preferable in cinema production as the much larger image making overloading the audience.

Believe me, if you work in cinema the nitty gritty matters a lot, what film how good it is, it's exact technical limits, how good the lens and other equipment is, it is what makes good better (and production companies pay big money for it). But it is not as important as a good script in good cinema, that is where it starts, good script, good acting, good production, good equipment, almost in that order.

For TV productions in general they do do tracking, you do use panning, and you do move around with people in documentaries etc. For the normal person it is even worse, and the performance of the camera under movement is very important, and also a very nice way of testing compression performance (basically nearly as good as having a dance troop in front of the camera, or filming a breezy tree). I am interested in the camera being good in all normal consumer situations.

But I am not saying that I need EIS or face detect, just I found that the image got better when I turned them off, which means that people might be able to improve their low light shots (I am yet to see if it effects daytime shots beneficially, a couple of stops movement could be beneficial to the look, which people seem to have missed.
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Old Jun 13, 2010, 10:15 AM   #1040
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He, he, good one Fishy, this compared to a Red scarlet, good joke, you proabbly don't even realize how funny it is.
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