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Old Jun 13, 2010, 11:30 AM   #1041
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I pitty the Fool A-team

Wayne nothing is pointed to you buddy. I as well maxhuey.

It's only a camcorder ido not expect perfection.

I just shot a few reviews nothing more. I make no $$ of this [email protected]#$

I do not even get a thank you from Kodak. or even a thank you but control of this section

I am sure Steves review he said he shot 70 video andshots before he depleted his battery. I find that hard to believe

6 sec 10 shots 1 minute, 70 shots 70 minutes 1hr 10 min and forgot how pics he also claimed


well wait for the vid to pop up LOL.
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Old Jun 13, 2010, 11:57 AM   #1042
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Default Footage quality

Unfortunately could not get the camera returned today, but am aiming to return (if I can).

The camera seems to have more noise then other zi8's. One type of noise is dark short streaks (pixels long) and groups of pixels that sticks out a lot. He, he, it is giving my HSHD a run for it's money for noise in top mode. I don't examine the footage of a lot of sensors, but I don't ever remember these sorts of problems with the Micron (Aptina) sensors years ago in the digital cinema camera projects (basically the historical versions of the sensors these cameras use). Maybe a badder batch, I don't know, but I am getting noise even outside (particularly the sky). One thing I know for sure, the sensor technology in the camera industry has gone forwards a lot, a lot better than this. I would have hoped that these sensors would have advanced a bit more by now (not that they would be as good). One thing a I pointed out years ago was the signal to noise ratio of these sensors (measurement of noise) but my camera seems to be behaving even worse then that (you should be able to see very little low level noise under magnification in the day shots) where I would have hoped they would have been a bit better. But even just the normal expected Micron level would have been enough. 24mb/s h264 is great enough, providing it is not overwhelmed by noise.

For consumer level video, the Aptina image is OK, as long as they can produce that image in low light, and get a bit more latitude. Something of the performance of the original XDCAM HD cameras, is what they should be aiming for, which the Sony HX5 mid level digital compact is probably already significantly exceeding in sensor technology.

You don't see much of the noise in the shoot posted above, because I have discovered that my computer configuration is still filtering them, even the snapshots. So, even under magnification you see a lot less than is really there. I have got into home cinema classic and turn off all filtering and got a lot different results (but I need to reinstall and make sure the various packages on the computer and graphics card drivers are not interfering). I have also watched them all on my 42 inch professional color balanced viewsonic (one of the cheapest 42 inch panels when I bought it, and definitely cheapest with pro color calibration) with noise reduction in the menu off, directly from the zi8 to gauge the difference, but you will probably find a number of $600 panels will now be similar). My CRT monitor is not helping either, it also needs to be replaced.

Youtube shots tell you little about these things.
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Old Jun 13, 2010, 12:21 PM   #1043
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishycomics View Post
I pitty the Fool A-team

It's only a camcorder ido not expect perfection.

I do not even get a thank you from Kodak. or even a thank you but control of this section

I am sure Steves review he said he shot 70 video andshots before he depleted his battery. I find that hard to believe

6 sec 10 shots 1 minute, 70 shots 70 minutes 1hr 10 min and forgot how pics he also claimed
Thank you Fishy, we all love you, and you know I mean it.

Well thankfully my review is finished, and the need for such detail. I did discover a few ways to improve your images (using EIS/Face, PAL/NTSC to effect exposure, shutter and noise). Not that you guys would have read the posts to know that

Many consumer electronics recommend that you charge the lithium battery the first time overnight etc to maximize capacity. Any professional is interested in keeping his shots as short as possible so he does not have to edit.

I do not expect perfection, what I ask for is far far from perfection. I have my own designs for a new type of lens, new compression mechanism, new processing solutions, new type of camera system, new type of shape, new type of production, perfect and revolutionary for the consumer market, and professional. All in your packet, all for a couple hundred dollars. I was thinking of using Aptina sensors to start with (But I wish I had the Sony sensor). I would not call that perfect, but miles ahead, in terms of no brain ease of use, and professional use.
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Old Jun 13, 2010, 2:30 PM   #1044
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Dear Fishy,

I won't mind if at all the "FOOL-A" team or "SAPRANO" was directed towards me as you excluded the names of 2 others (wayne and maxhuey) as I have become one of your die hard fans and this is from the bottom of my heart. By the way though I am a medico by profession and electronics have been my passion.

You are doing a great job replying to their peoples queries and I think most of them would be content with your solution.

Your reviews are superb and to go with it, the wonderfull self explanatory videos. WOW!

You truly deserve an official place in the KODAK industry though they don't adore your contributions. I believe that you have been honest not trying to promote a particular gadget.

I think your thread would have atleast increased KODAK ZI8 sales by atleast 10% since most of people tend to read reviews over net before making a purchase.

You are a popular guy among camera lovers and people love you though they don't bother to extend their gratitude (lazy people-don't have enough time).

Also would thank senior members like Wayne who are very knowledgible and share their valuable piece of information with everyone.

So there's nothing to be upset about and continue the great job.
Hope for more to come from you!

Sorry, if any of my acts hurt you dude!



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Old Jun 13, 2010, 3:05 PM   #1045
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no I did not point fingers or yell.

I know wayne to well, and understand he is a Great Guy, and means well, why I can tease and fool around, maxhuey , the same i can make fun.......

And I did just that put on my Universal shirt and called the bluff.

Now you my friend are another great person, and I do thank you for all your hard work etc................

I hear what you said anddo appologise if I offended .

but hey I have yet to see a clip form any of ya. oneday I wil lol. you guys are great.

Yes there will be video'sof the cams I own. and I do my best to purchase a model I like.

I wanted a FLIP but it will be my hard earned Cash, I truely wanted a updated Aiptek GVs but failure in audio made me return that model.
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Old Jun 13, 2010, 3:36 PM   #1046
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Thanks dude,

I'll take that!

I don't know why i tend to get taken away at times............huh....., I think a lot.........shouldn't be....

Yeh, one day i will come out with a video which i would have allready done but for slow net speed of 230.kbps!

Soon i will be switching to 2.8 Mbps plan and shall upload my videos.

Great to see someone kidding around!

Fishy, i found something missing in this forum.............Reviews on the very popular Chinese pen cam series as well as AIPTEK PENCAM HD......

My friend gifted me a MP9 DVR spy pen recorder 640x480,15 fps (INR 1,600=$35)...........was great but not of much use to me....... AVI format videos without any compression artifacts......but for a poor low light performance and frame rate......

Meanwhile watching soccer -germans vs aussies!............... will be cheering for Aussies.


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Old Jun 13, 2010, 4:49 PM   #1047
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Yes I hear ya. the Pen Trio, only a company can offer trials , and I can only hope for a steal of a deal. I cannot afford AIptek, I cannot afford another cam Lol. MY piggy bank is filling up for a sarlet, and done with.

these are Pc low- now I will say theyse are the Rich and famous cams LMAO!

go team.
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Old Jun 14, 2010, 12:04 AM   #1048
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After waiting in pain for my slow internet connection to load the video, I laugh with even more abdominal pain curling up on the floor wify think I swallowed crazy pills... its all your fault Fishy! she would not sleep in the same bed with me tonight! yes she still think I am infected with something dreadful...most fun I had all day!

Wayne I think your unit is a dud with those problems you have, it is not uncommon to see a few zi8 that come out of the factory with those problems, if you contact Kodak, they should exchange a good one for you. This is a very simple cam, to which Fishy described as "no thinking required", but can do very good video if the operator allow it to. Takes a few practice though if you were already accustom to more complex cam.

Cheers, max
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Old Jun 14, 2010, 1:48 AM   #1049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishycomics View Post
but hey I have yet to see a clip form any of ya. oneday I wil lol. you guys are great.

I wanted a FLIP but it will be my hard earned Cash, I truely wanted a updated Aiptek GVs but failure in audio made me return that model.
Quote:
Originally Posted by drramkishorehs View Post
Thanks dude,



Yeh, one day i will come out with a video which i would have allready done but for slow net speed of 230.kbps!

Soon i will be switching to 2.8 Mbps plan and shall upload my videos.

Fishy, i found something missing in this forum.............Reviews on the very popular Chinese pen cam series as well as AIPTEK PENCAM HD......
Yeah, I'm been thinking of posting crops from frames, to illustrate issues. But I get so sick everything is struggle today I planned to gt out of bed after 6 hours but was so sick I could not get out for another 7. My own Internet works around 46kb/s with bad performance, and times out after 6 hours, so often times out before end of load, and you have to total reload the next session. Often i only download the first 6 to 20 seconds, and review that.

Fishy, I think best to sell some of the cameras that you don't need (while keep best for comparison) soon after you review them (so they keep their resale price). I would not worry about flip from what I hear. Too much out there to review everything, but best value for money, best value for category, and the unusual spread across multiple reviewers is doable. I think so many cameras are mediocre, that even manufactures might not want them to be reviewed. You can probably see if it is worth it from news and check out in shops. But I think many more people could review.

drramkishorehs, looks like those pen cameras are a good opportunity for you to review? I have been eying those thumb cameras myself, but I have to find a good enough one, and just posting is difficult for me, I find it difficult just to look after myself.

Maxhuey, as you can tell I know how to get good video out of camera, but camera itself is a problem, i do not want to carry a 10,000 lux lighting rig around with me to get good performance. It could be better. Even if the camera sounded normal, the way the PAL 50hz mode is implemented would not be beneficial. There are a number of minor improvements that could make significant benefit to this camera (see previous ideas) mostly firmware, while retaining no brain shooting modes (people are to obsessed about no brain, are they expecting the camera to someday automatically decide to record the scenes for us).
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Old Jun 14, 2010, 2:10 AM   #1050
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What next for me, 3D (I was thinking of possibly buying two kodaks, not now). Aiptek, or something better, or SHD. The time of new camera announcements is coming up, just to wait, Kodak, Sanyo. If Sony had a high profile h264 28mb/s fullhdp50 version of the HX5, then that would be good.

If anybody wants to keep an eye on camaera releases, you might be able to get live news feeds from engadget, gizmodo (I don't know if akihabaranews has tagged section for camcorder) camcorder info etc camcorder sections. Maybe if Steves could have a user submission system for a camera database, people could fill in fields (type, camera, links, resolutions modes, maybe max datarate for each mode) and submit new cameras (administrator checks before putting on database).
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