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Old Nov 17, 2009, 9:58 AM   #251
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Originally Posted by rdmiller View Post
Assuming the ZX1 does offer continuous frame-by-frame replay just by HOLDING the button to the right (not constantly pressing it), will the remote control offer this as well? Is there anyone here who can test this for me before we make this purchase? That would be really appreciated.

On a related question... since this forum seems very active and professional... is there any camcorder or camera available which offers at least 60 fps video AND can be operated with a remote control AND costs less than $300 AND has decent quality AND offers frame-by-frame playback?
Richard, have you tried asking owners in the Kodak, Samsung and Sanyo forums?

I guess you want something that can be used instantly out in the field for shots and instant replays. But if you want something else, and want to go to a higher budget, you could sue a computer to do this. The footage can be loaded over, there is also systems like Black Magic's Intensity PRO, that can be used to load the footage live from the video port. The Casio f1 (and latter) also has a 6mp 60fps 1 second frame buffer (longer at lower resolutions). Various camcorders have high speed modes. Wvga machine vision cameras can also be used with computers and specialist software. I forget the cheapest, but it was around $250 4 years ago (they usually range much more expensive). Specialist motion analysis software might be available for consumer cameras now, and even for free (google, source forge etc)

The Samsonic HD22, Richard, any links?
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Old Nov 17, 2009, 9:59 AM   #252
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I ordered a DOD, as I never got the chance to tear apart the Aiptek's like you did, and I rather liked the hardware hacking that Japanese blogger was doing on the DOD
Trevmar, any links to this DOD mods?


Thanks,

Wayne.
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Old Nov 17, 2009, 10:18 AM   #253
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Fishy, well, back temporarily.

The sensor size and resolution issue, this sticks in me.

I have been waiting for a review with a resolution chart to see resolution, but nothing is coming through.

The firmware data could be wrong, it could be a mistake copied over from the si6. What does the new firmware say, and has anybody esquired with the technical people who do the firmware (to follow the chain of command as to what is the right resolution, as normal would not be expected to have access to finale concrete data)?
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Old Nov 17, 2009, 10:24 AM   #254
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I remember why I came over here tonight, I got negative feedback on the RCA model. I have to track down things and see if I can post tonight.

About the Kodak, if only a site would do a review of the next model soon (but I guess it wont be the 1080p60/50 dream).
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Old Nov 17, 2009, 11:21 AM   #255
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Originally Posted by Wayne12 View Post
I remember why I came over here tonight, I got negative feedback on the RCA model. I have to track down things and see if I can post tonight.

About the Kodak, if only a site would do a review of the next model soon (but I guess it wont be the 1080p60/50 dream).

It'sSad as I was going to go to facebook and Message Mr. Jeffery Hayzlett, if he could allow me that oppurtunity, but I am best to take a trip to Rochester and picket a sign up . Its all good that you do like all the other like you and I wait till 2012 arrives.

the Bitrate is BIG, I wondewr if the720P 60 is largerthen 1080p LOL
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Old Nov 17, 2009, 11:33 AM   #256
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Trevmar, any links to this DOD mods?
http://tinyurl.com/ykrvteu

I just ordered my second DOD, I am very happy, but I have special needs. I need highest resolution at light above about 30lux and seamless continuous recording in an inconspicuous recorder. The 1920 and 1440 modes are amazing resolution (even when pixel-peeped). There is crude digital stabilization in this, good enough for me. I can use my Panasonic ZS3 with x12 zoom and optical stabilization if I need good stab on a shoot...

I might say my unit is not labeled DOD, and there may be minor differences. I note that the battery orientation is different from the disassembled picture I linked above. The rest of the unit is the same. I got mine from esino.hk and maybe the lens quality is different? Heck, all I know is that the lens quality is superb, no chromatic aberration and crystal clear focus.

Last edited by Trevmar; Nov 17, 2009 at 11:43 AM.
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Old Nov 17, 2009, 10:50 PM   #257
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Trevar, thanks for the link.

From footage that Fishy shot I take it that the low light footage on the DOD is worse then zi8, and poor, very granulated. Was I right in this? You might also have a different edition with different performance.

I also like to say, that I dislike tinyurl, as eventually the links become inactive and you can't find what the people were referring too. Also, this methodology can be used as a good method for spammers to track who belongs to an internet session and where they go, all the advertising servers can track who you are and relate it back to a particular person (without even using a cookie). Major ethical and security risks.
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Old Nov 17, 2009, 10:52 PM   #258
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Fishy,

I am having problems following, is there footage out there of the RCA you know of? Where did you find the bitrate? What si the 2012, or are you referring to the Kodak? If you are referring to the Kodak, isn't the new camera coming in January, or do you know of a 60p model? It is exciting times for Kodak, the z concept allows them the opportunity to regain market share, I can see what they are doing, and good on them, it has been a long time since the Box brownie. Once they can hit 1080p50/60 4 pixel binned+, they will be doing well, with 3D just down the road (bluray 3D has been announced and there are many models of TV with 3D features now) and SHD and eventually ultra HDTV 3D, there is many years worth of opportunity for new models available for them.

I might also say, if you are talking about Kodak, I have a revolutionary camera design concept in mind for the hybrid market, capable of delivering professional grade video performance with many new techniques and technologies, including planned sensor technology and compression, for a very low price, capable of eventually coming up against the performance of Reds newly announced models, and easy to use. I have been refining my concepts over the years since before I was involved with the DIY digital cinema camera projects in 2005, which the Red camera came out of. It is far to radical for them to get their minds around. It leans on technology from my longterm non-camera design concepts. I would, love to get this out, but it is expensive and radical to work on.
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Old Nov 18, 2009, 12:46 AM   #259
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Default What could be happening with zooming.

Fishy, I might have something, but i do not know for certain (under the
weather at the moment).

The camera is likely to be using pixel binning and sensor windowing, that
might be the cause of the problem.

I assume it is using the 5mp sensor, though I woudl still like to know if
it is truly 1/2.5inch 5 MP or 1/4.5 1.6mp.


There are a number of options.

- Using interpolation, that sacrifices some quality, you can maintain the
same angle of view for all resolutions.

- Using pixel windowing you can use a smaller section of the sensor
instead. This allows you to match a sensor pixel to a screen pixel.
This results in less angle of view.

- Using pixel binning, you match a screen pixel to a group of pixels (they
can overlap, but assume that each group matches one screen pixel), that
have been artificially joined together to act like a larger, higher
performing pixel (except the performance in usually in between a real
pixel of that size and the smaller pixels).

You can use these in different combinations at the same time, plus other
techniques. For instance, normally to compensate for the gaps between
sensor pixels that produce fly screening and flashing edges/pixels etc in
videos, and for other reasons, sensor pixels might be slightly smaller or
bigger than the screen pixel, which results in a mild interpolation where
the gaps now often fall inside a screen pixel (averaging out the fly
screening and flashing a lot). Pixel binning can also be used to reduce
the loss of angle of view, by increasing the size of the window.

So, what I expect usually happens around here with 5 mpixel sensors, is
that the max still resolution uses most of the sensor, and has the widest
angle of view. The 1080 modes use a windowed solution where the angle
drops a fair bit. The 720p modes, because 720p pixel binned nearly
matches the size of the sensor, uses a window that has an angle of view
more close to that of the max still. If however, you just used windowed
720p, you get a disaster, and he angle of view will be half, or less, that
of the max possible still).

Of course there are many ways to do pixel technology, and many
configurations, this was only a simplified version.

I am also assuming that the sensor is 5mp, rather than the 1.6mp reported.


How this affects Zoom Exposure.

I am groggy from begin sick at the moment, so I'll take a stab at it (plus
it was confusing to which modes were being used on different shots). It
could also be, just some firmware adjustment or quirk.

If you use 720p and the sensor is pixel binning, the, the image would be
wider with less noise.
If digital zooming would use windowing and interpolation, but if the zoom
switched from pixel binning to non binning, or just smaller binned groups
of pixels, to maintain resolution, then the brightness of the image will
dramatically drop. 1080p, would be using gain (more noise) to maintain
brightness. Also, from low light resolution shots I have seen of the zi6,
I wonder if they are using even larger binned groups of pixels to get
extra low light performance (lower the resolution) and then using
resolution upscaling (which is acceptable for low end consumer). Then
any mode could have this problem, with lower resolutions having more of
it. The ideal solution for zooming, in low light increase gain (and
de-noise) to maintain brightness of the zoomed image.


If it is 1.6mp, fullhd would have to be interpolated restitution upscaled
from near full sensor width window (hopefully, instead of a 960 pixels
across window). 720p would be non binned (unless low light feature)
window. Other resolutions could be binned, windowed and or interpolated.
But Fishy can probably tell from experience which is happening.
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Old Nov 18, 2009, 3:57 AM   #260
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Fishy,

I am having problems following, is there footage out there of the RCA you know of? Where did you find the bitrate? What si the 2012, or are you referring to the Kodak?
.
2012 aired as shows, a new movie not a camera.

Bitrate of the kodak? dod?

the RCA I am like you I just google or look at youtube ,vimeo, or email andget no response.

I liked the RCA at the Start, and Would have been a great cam I just did not think it was1920x1080, missprint or wrong info at the sart it stated 720P

Last edited by fishycomics; Nov 18, 2009 at 5:40 AM.
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