Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital Cameras (Point and Shoot) > Hybrid Still/Movie/MP3 Digicams

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Nov 19, 2009, 8:53 PM   #291
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 584
Default

.
A quick and dirty way to assess relative capacity of Lithium Ion batteries is to weigh them. A 17 gram battery usually holds more charge than a 14 gram battery, in my experience
.
ps: A real Kodak KLIC-7004 weighs 18 grams. The best white-labels I bought weighed 17 grams and lasted about 10% less time than the Kodak. The worst weighed 13 grams and lasted about half as long...
.

Last edited by Trevmar; Nov 19, 2009 at 8:56 PM.
Trevmar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19, 2009, 9:42 PM   #292
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 60
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevmar View Post
.
A quick and dirty way to assess relative capacity of Lithium Ion batteries is to weigh them. A 17 gram battery usually holds more charge than a 14 gram battery, in my experience
.
ps: A real Kodak KLIC-7004 weighs 18 grams. The best white-labels I bought weighed 17 grams and lasted about 10% less time than the Kodak. The worst weighed 13 grams and lasted about half as long...
.
Thats a good idea :
maicod is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 19, 2009, 11:29 PM   #293
Senior Member
 
Wayne12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,071
Default

Guys. guys, ease up, all this speculation is not good.


Batteries:

Working backwards in time, lithium battery performance works on design, and different version of battery can give drastically different performance and life.

The Kodak uses a higher quality data rate that consumes more power. it does not matter, battery technology is increasing, and in coming years we are looking to silicon nanowire batteries, expected ten times the capacity. With the decrease in power consumption of smaller chip processes (why we have zi8 now) the power consumption will come down, so maybe double or quadruple battery life before silicon nanowire.


Sensor debate and priority information:

The information is hardly priority though there are concerns. Their is legal obligation to match claimed performance, which no name camera companies used to regularly flout with interpolated resolutions. You could rip apart the camera and also prove if a camera has a sensor capable of doing what the camera claims.

I believe that by law all camera companies should be required to quote their main performance related components (which is good PR for good name brand companies), which would make it easier for reviewers to pick good cameras. Think about it, it does not have to be the general marketing campaign, but auxiliary information in performance claims. Such and such sensor gives all these benefits, connected to whatever circuits (like adc quality in the old days) for enhanced performance, a basic scheme that intelligent people can follow to advise their friends and relatives.

I also believe they should freely publish circuit diagrams (and service manual) but companies stopped that years ago.


Problems:

Al this fussing is not good. Calibration of cameras is something best left to the knowledgeable (and companies should really just save the factory configuration, and the last service center configuration (which is really simple and just requires locking two data sets in storage), so anybody knowledgeable can adjust the camera, and users can reset to the factory or last official service easily (even a couple of user configuration slots). No trouble (also the factory and last firmware backups).

But we are talking about system information and simpler settings that can be changed and rest no fuss.

If you make trouble though, they might simply not enable you to even flash firmware in the future and you would be stuck with what ever faults it had. So, ease up a bit. We can all be friends, though information should be quoted as interpolated or not do we know what we are buying. They could have simply put the wrong model number in the firmware, that information is likely to be entered, rather than wired to the actual sensor. It could be that they might have planned a fewer cameras, and got the information mixed up, no concerns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maicod View Post
I've been scratching my head for a while about how the Zi8 chooses its folder and file names. I don't see anything logical in it so far. Does someone know how the Zi8 decides when to start a new folder and why it doesn't number it logically (so it seems at least) ?

as an example here's my map names that my Zi8 created between half october and half november (now):
Looks sequential, are the filenames inside the folders sequential, and does the folder name reflect the first or last file or the number of files in folders till that point, or number of files in the folder? I guess it is not making a folder per session, that once it hits a certain size it starts to make a decision to make a new file, and when it hits a certain size it makes a decision to make a new folder (so different resolutions results in more or less files in a folder before it makes a new one). One problem with a scheme like this, is if you delete a file or folder, and the software does not keep track, it might try to start from the deleted files and fill in the gaps (I think my Aiptek does this with files).
Wayne12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2009, 12:07 AM   #294
Senior Member
 
Wayne12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,071
Default

About the firmware fix for the high pitch noise.

I imagine it is most likely that the pitch (but I have not noticed it) is from some hardware interference. In this case not much can be done except run that hardware differently to reduce or even get rid of the pitch, or filter the noise out.

It is probably going to be filtered. Generally what they would do first, is probably reduce all sound above a certain frequency, or preferably at the frequencies that the noise is at, and issue a firmware patch. This would reduce sound performance, even making it more muffled. When people still complain, they will probably reduce it more or eliminate all the sound above or in that frequency range.

If the sound is consistent, you can isolate the particular frequencies involved and their harmonics, this would maintain better sound quality. You could also identify deviations from he regular pattern to identify sound from the scene and restore it in place of the noise. If processing power allowed you, you could also identify some variable components of the noise and remove them (but this may interfere by varying the sound coming from the scene as well, so extra processing is required to restore and get over that.).

The next step is to fix the noise for good in hardware for the next manufacturing revision of the camera (can take down to weeks for a temporary quick fix). But to avoid firmware always applying the same noise suppression to the fixed hardware and reducing sound quality in future, you record he hardware revision in the camera (and preferably the batch etc) so the firmware can load in different configurations and code for each revision. So the fixed model will have full sound without sound suppression while firmware still applies the suppression tot ha older revisions of the camera. This is not always followed in products, but is a good best practice.
Wayne12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2009, 12:59 AM   #295
Senior Member
 
Wayne12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,071
Default Advanced user modes.

Another thing I have been wanting to post about for some time, is about more advanced control system for simple cameras, for the rest of us, where you can switch the menu system, and control system between simple (or easy) and advanced. What do you think?

You would have buried in the menu system a selection to change to the advanced modes, and a simple action to reset back to simple mode (in case anybody changes your camera). The camera would be set as standard to he easiest mode. Cameras could also have a button labeled 'Easy' or 'Simple' to switch back to the simple mode, and if set in menu, it could also allow you to switch back and forwards.

The modes would be: 'Simple', 'Advanced (simple)' and 'Advanced', and on professional cameras you would have 'Pro" or "Professional" as well. I forget exactly how I was planning these, as the balance of features between the modes is very important for suer satisfaction, and I will have to go away and think about it again, but it went something like this:

Simple is the full automatic mode, with simple menus.

Advanced (simple) (or 'Simple Advanced') is in between Simple and Advanced. Unfortunately I have forgotten it's configuration since I thought up this particular item version last night. But, I think it was to have focus lock and lock, and manual automatic controls, and most of the menu system of advanced below. i will have to rethink what it was.

Advanced is the mode where you can independently set gain, shutter, iris, color channels, frame rate, focus, sharpening etc, auto priorities (for instance, like exposure priorities, like which to stay set and which to adjust in which order) and have user defined switchable sets of them and marks (like focus framing etc). Basically all the sort of stuff you could do on say a Sanyo HD2000 hybrid camcorder. You would also have advanced physical controls and be able to assign functions to them (also as part of sets). Pro and professional can be two more advanced professional forms of advanced.

The manual/quick start guide, and sticker on front of camera, would say, "When in doubt, press the simple and Info/help buttons" (or whatever other control).

A camera like the zi8 then can be a truly wonderful little personal pocket device for every level of photographer. I would set to 50fps 100% shutter, natural color, minimal gain, no sharpening etc (and drop back to 25fps 100% shutter then open iris, then increase gain in low light to maintain a suitably bright image simular to what we can see in color vision). Would be nice to keep around as a personal camera when I am not carrying my Red scarlet for pro work.

Last edited by Wayne12; Nov 20, 2009 at 1:04 AM.
Wayne12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2009, 2:41 AM   #296
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 40
Default

hi all

i have been reading through this thread and i have seen mention of the test function menu. having been in that menu and changed some of the settings i have talked to a kodak engineer and i was told that the general public shouldnt know how to get to this menu. also i was told that just bringing this menu up will void the warranty. there are some settings which you can re calibrate but the Defective pixel, gryo calibration and the w/b calibration can not be fixed once cleared. i was told by the uk and us that these settings are the deep factory settings of the camera. if they are changed then there is no way of fixing them. kodak was very suprised that anyone knew how to get to this menu in the first place.

So downgrading the firmware voids the warranty
Going into the test function voids the warranty
changing any of the settings in the test funtion menu voids the warranty.

i know because i did it and was told by kodak.

GOING INTO THE TEST FUNCTION MENU VOIDS THE WARRANTY DO AT OWN RISK.

i just wanted to warn you guys because once you go in there kodak dont have to fix, refund or replace your zi8.

thanks for reading

Chrisc74
chrisc74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2009, 2:56 AM   #297
Moderator
 
fishycomics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NYC NY
Posts: 9,621
Default

The Batterr. Final result last night lasted shy of 2 hours

1 hour 97 minutes WOW

Chris, One will never learn, lol, just continue on All.
fishycomics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2009, 5:43 AM   #298
Moderator
 
fishycomics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NYC NY
Posts: 9,621
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne12 View Post
Another thing I have been wanting to post about for some time, is about more advanced control system for simple cameras, for the rest of us, where you can switch the menu system, and control system between simple (or easy) and advanced. What do you think?

.
The Sanyo Xacti series, the HD700 has the Hot keys, and simple, auto, full auto mode.

If Kodak ,since we're in the Kodak topic, if they were able to accomidate the features. they'll not correctly offer what we're asking.

Samsung did a sports, beach/snow mode. Still not what we're asking.

lets hope one will listen and go a step furtehr and come through for the Kodak family.
fishycomics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2009, 5:48 AM   #299
Moderator
 
fishycomics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NYC NY
Posts: 9,621
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by maicod View Post
Thats a good idea :
Maicod,

On the Kodaks batt. Iam sure the USA version said 3.7 vdc, 950 min, 1000mah and no rating of power output 5. rh.

The aftermarket I have is 1400 mah 5.18rh silver
I agree heiver, fatter larger will not fitto the kodaks compartment, so something Fishy.

As long as I got the 55 min run time, I am sure i wil lget the maximum run time required as I confirmed 2.0 hours on the kodak, and both in HD ran equil times, except my last test, with alll settings at minimum.
fishycomics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Nov 20, 2009, 7:39 AM   #300
Senior Member
 
Wayne12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,071
Default

Ohh, great, after an hour of trying to get it to load (quick reply errored during load), giving up and rewriting it, finally my post worked. Well I'll scrap that one here is the new one:

This shouldn't void warranty, there might be some jurisdictions that allow this, but I thought warranty was mandatory unless you 'actually' damaged it.

They could get around all problems by including a auto backup system like I suggested so users can always restore what was set in the factory, and burying the few things that could actually do damage by making them data cable accessible only (most defiantly things will not).

I would love to calibrate my own camera, but I would want to know what everything does and what to avoid, then spend a couple of weeks researching how to do it. I like the white balance on the zi6 better in many shots I have seen, and also how it is exposed on the top end, I have seen shots where the face and sky is simply too burned out. There are a few other times too (though I doubt that a service menu would allow you to select 25/50p frame rate). Canon even has a software development kits. Most of the rest of you, only need to know the basic configuration data like in this post:

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/1010112-post49.html

Last edited by Wayne12; Nov 20, 2009 at 7:53 AM.
Wayne12 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:35 AM.