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Old Oct 17, 2009, 11:51 AM   #51
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The downgrade is possible, as I had guessed. Thanks fishycomics for the file - did the 1.03 update consist only of the *.fw file? Because the 1.05 update consisted of two files:
  • Zi8_105.fw (seems to be responsible for basic menu system, live preview)
  • Zi8_586.img (probably the software for higher level functions, recording videos)
When selecting the "i" icon in the settings you see two version, first the "firmware" version and second the "software" version. When updating the firmware, the software apparently gets deleted and the camera shows version 000. No video recordings seems possible until software is updated/re-uploaded too.

I've attached a few snaps of the process - I simply used the software version 586 with the firmware version 1.03, so far there don't seem to be any ill effects (the jerky zooming from 1.03 is back, video recording and playback works) but theoretically there could be incompatibility problems when using software-version that were released with different firmware-versions. But all I can really do so far is taking an educated guess .

A quick summary of the Zi8 firmware downgrade process:
  • put the firmware (*.fw file) and software (*.img file) in a folder called "system" on SD-card
  • enter the hidden test-menu by holding "waste bin" and "camera" button while powering on the Zi8
  • scroll all the way down to FW Info and click the joystick to enter
  • you can see various information like current firmware version, statistics, and so on
  • click the joystick again to start flashing firmware, or press the "play" button to return to previous menu
  • wait until the flashing is complete, the camera will power off after that
  • on the next start you will be asked if you want to flash software (if it was deleted by the firmware flashing), confirm this
  • process will take a bit longer than flashing firmware, camera will power off after completion
  • on the next start, check if everything went as expected by entering the settings and selecting the "i" icon
  • you have downgraded successfully if the expected firmware and software version is displayed
This is inofficial and based on my current observations. Naturally you should only try this if you know what you are doing. It's your own responsibility if you use undocumented functions, Kodak will not help you if anything goes wrong .

phil

Last edited by crashdebug; Oct 17, 2009 at 12:20 PM.
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Old Oct 17, 2009, 12:12 PM   #52
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SO we are to be able to go foward with firmware, and back with firmware Phile you are the man, so I should be fine when I decide to go foward. Anyone that has the orginal must offer this, so a default is always available. but wants a high pitch lol.

Do you like a hand or the EIS, I like to see that icon on the live feed. of recording.

I als wonder if the company will listen to us and correctly fix the issues, rather produce a newer model in jan, I as well wonder if they can add the hd1080p 60fps to the older versions smack me I am dreaming.....
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Old Oct 17, 2009, 5:16 PM   #53
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if kodak really manage to release another model in few months. i would suggest few things:
- better image stabilization.
- stereo internal mic.
- keep the a/v connection.
- price less than 200$
i don't care about 1080/60fps that will not encourage me to buy the camera.
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Old Oct 17, 2009, 10:25 PM   #54
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And release a version in the USA which doesn't have that silly 28 minutes recording time limitation. Panasonic releases two models of their ZS3 - unlimited time (AVCHD-Lite) for the USA, and a crippled 28 minute version into Europe, to keep the European diplomats happy.

Why can't Kodak manage that? All it would take is a firmware upgrade...
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Old Oct 18, 2009, 6:32 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevmar View Post
And release a version in the USA which doesn't have that silly 28 minutes recording time limitation. Panasonic releases two models of their ZS3 - unlimited time (AVCHD-Lite) for the USA, and a crippled 28 minute version into Europe, to keep the European diplomats happy.

Why can't Kodak manage that? All it would take is a firmware upgrade...

that will be a great observation , so the USA we have UNLIMITED, while Overseas LIMTED. dam that is not good. Wonder if Jeff Hayzlett teams all got the Unlimited Models.

Last edited by fishycomics; Oct 18, 2009 at 7:01 AM.
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Old Oct 18, 2009, 1:27 PM   #56
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The European Union apply a lower Customs tariff to cameras than to Camcorders. In order to save a few percent customs duty, a Hybrid manufacturer must cripple HD video capability to 30 minutes maximum.

Panasonic have the same camera as the ZS3 in the US market, with unlimited AVCHD-Lite NTSC video, and as the TZ7 in the European market, with 30 minute max PAL AVCHD-lite.
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Old Oct 18, 2009, 1:57 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trevmar View Post
The European Union apply a lower Customs tariff to cameras than to Camcorders. In order to save a few percent customs duty, a Hybrid manufacturer must cripple HD video capability to 30 minutes maximum.

Panasonic have the same camera as the ZS3 in the US market, with unlimited AVCHD-Lite NTSC video, and as the TZ7 in the European market, with 30 minute max PAL AVCHD-lite.
I am assuming then this is to stop them going into a cinema and recording a full movie nonstop because of the small size of these devices?

Does this affect even Hybrid Devices like the Aiptek and similar over in Europe? The reason I say this, is that they are in a similar price range. I am guessing it's all in the perception, in that consumers will put up with it in digital cameras and perhaps ipod like devices as they are not considered 'real camcorders' and supposedly no one would use them to record a long event, but perhaps Aiptek style and similar devices wouldn't be able to get away with it as consumers expect regular camcorder devices to record continuously?
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Old Oct 18, 2009, 2:22 PM   #58
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Using Magix Movie edit Pro 12P, or any magix, this is what I had out of24 clipschosen, fields, flowers, the dogs etc, etc. one clip I taken out as it did not fit and magix still correctly did its Job thanks fo rwatching
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Old Oct 18, 2009, 8:10 PM   #59
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As I observed the Kodak zi8 with playback of the sdhc card from the Dod F200HD, it plays the video with no conversion, the DOD with the Kodaks thesame. but not the Aiptek GVS.
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Old Oct 19, 2009, 8:42 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishycomics View Post
As I did the shot for, that you requested. HD720P 30, and WVGA 30 nighttime. so now you are saying , you like a low level one at a evening time when the sun is just going down.
Sorry, just a comment clarifying, not a request (a good low light test used to be a light room with a 15 watt incandescent bulb, but most hybrids would probably struggle with 60 watt, mine struggles with 30 watt fluorescent (=150 watt they say). Thanks for the footage, getting ready to download it.

I calculated bit rate by dividing file size by seconds, I saw the listed numbers and thought they were high, so I downloaded to verify.


Phil

It is disappointing about the sensor, I know there are many Aptina sensors with simular model names (maybe one letter difference) and it is possible to get them confused. Even if this sensor was the same as the one in mine, it would likely be a newer revision with increased performance (it could be greatly improved). A newer 1/4.5th sensor model might have additional performance again. The thought of doing binning from 960 pixels to 1920, as you suggested, is horrifying (though you get more altitude and potentially lower low light performance), only for low light situations. I would rather they stuck to 1440*1080 resolution which is interpolated to 1920 anyway. Even though it was 1080p30, it still was something i was considering. I wonder if the Samsung can beat it in latitude, noise, lowlight and resolution (but no nice external mic etc and In think I may have fount he data rate lower, but can't remember). The RCA that is coming out soon maybe 60i or 60p, so it is a crowded upper market (I have not seen the top end DXG on sale). I suspect that RCA and DXG have been waiting on the newest chip sets, and maybe sensor, and have first pick etc.
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