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Old Dec 25, 2009, 10:24 AM   #591
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Thank you for your very detailed input Fishy, that's exactly what I wanted. I have some Kodak contacts through work, after the new year I will be able to pass a complete list of our observations directly to their techs. Some of it is obviously not applicable now, but may be incorporated in later models.

Only time will tell if Kodak is a company that listens to their customers needs/wants, and fulfils these needs/wants first, before their competition does...
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Old Dec 25, 2009, 11:17 AM   #592
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I am very troubled by the notion that one guy with "contacts" is going to represent the consensus of what to change in the firmware. Fishy's concerns are often opinions about features, which I often agree with and are insightful. These must be distinguished from defects, however.

Let's take one example: audio.

The Kodak Zi8 has an amazing feature - manual audio control, missing on almost all high-level camcorders. I would hate to see that feature changed in any way.

Now, you cannot change the audio *while recording*. That is true for most high-level cameras that have manual control. Altering the audio level while recording is a very bad idea. You should set the level correctly and record; that way you get the correct dynamic range. It is why autoleveling is so bad. Having this option cannot be bad (even if it is misused), but it is hardly a high-priority added feature and it is certainly not a defect.

Another audio feature: The level setting reverts back to default when you turn off the camera. Now, that is a good thing: you may have one session that needed a big audio boost. The next time you turn on the camera in a totally different situation you may have forgotten to turn down the level and get blasted audio without realizing it. This is a feature, not a defect. Fishy finds it annoying; I find it useful. No one is right or wrong, but to "complain" to Kodak about it demeans things that are real issues.

Fishy can complain to Kodak; I can complain to Kodak as an individual. But I do not think it appropriate for any person with direct "contacts" complaining on behalf of anyone else. It's ok to be a beginner, and we will help out. It's not ok - in my opinion - to be acting as a representative of any community's views. You can represent your own views.
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Old Dec 25, 2009, 12:19 PM   #593
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I could not agree more. video link at bottom

Since we'll use the Audio as an example:
  • testing sound in rooms
  • testing sound outside
Using the cam with all in default, in a room, can vary each room differs. We have a small room, medium room large room, empty room carpeted room floored room metal room sheetrock room, etc, etc, etc..

Using the cam with all in default outdoors can vary in each situation. We have trees, country, city, noisy , quiet, dirt, grass, cement, etc, etc, etc

So when I say the sound is awefully low when I am filming, may not be low when I am indoors, and why we have a control to set the mic gain.

I would preferre a setting (feedback to Kodak) that allows to save the mic gain and should be an on/off feature or function. so when you forget, it's your fault, not a companies fault.

in settings at mic gain a ON/OFF and save.

In outdoor or a scenery, sometimes you want to hear the train wistle that is a quarter a mile away, when it is quiet, and have the cam at default, or a bird cirping, but you do not want to have a kid screaming on the top of their longues, next to the cam.

Kodak may or may not have used, or given us the choice for a external mic, and allowed us our own freedom, ans mark says.

"Do not touch something that is not broken" and one person talking for the rest of us, is not what we want, we are in a descussion, debate, and we are all friendly talking of the good, the bad, and the ugly.

If i had control of firmware, One will never be satasfies, I give kodak credit where due.

So here is a video of two cams back to back, tat I wanted to take more time over the winter LOL.

youtube and oters will not understand, the question, nor am I going into every single detail LOL

In this video, and these are a still off the QT player (see below)

With A Pc low budget Economy Hybrid camcorder

and wy people never know why I keep saying that over, and over, these are not a Home theater Movie cam, we know the differences yes?

One is a professional, the other a Pc mac for computers LOL.

the Aiptek clearly marked, and seems to be a lil grey scale, I am sure I have the Brazillian group in another clip of both LOL

Aiptek has absolute no gain control, wi lethe Kodak may be adjusted up three levels, it still cannot be compared to Aiptek

Others think kodak sould be compared to Creative labs, and rcs, and Pure digital, well they are in for a suprize.

the Aiptek is filmed in hd720P 60 f at 6 plus mbit rate, while the Kodak at hd720P 60 f at 9 plus mbits
Were it should have been around 13 and higher .


I will tell you be warned to turn down your volume. and I wish I had the option to next time at every start of a clip to say

video of patatoe ead sound raised to level 3.

I would love your comment why te kodak AUDIO is better then the Aipteks audio

Aiptek audio internal Stereo, Kodak Mono


Click pic for video or link at bottom






Now that you see my side of the table when I address an issue I will back up wit ha video, and a reson, and not t oa Sinle person that wil build teir own cam, he knoews who he is , or a person wants a recommendation, they know who they or a person who wants to take itto their buddies. never being insulting or fun of.. it's only a opinion and two cents, nothing more

Never will (and holding my breath) will Kodak come foward and join in.

VIDEO LINK http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbnRzJ_wtyM


As mentioned in bullets a indoor needs a outdoor scenerio.

Kodak file 12 plus mbits and a lowered 60 to 29.97f
AIptek no fps loss but 6 plus mbits

Video link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwZuObdHf_Y
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Last edited by fishycomics; Dec 25, 2009 at 1:27 PM.
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Old Dec 25, 2009, 1:02 PM   #594
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Perhaps I am missing something:

If the Kodak was first, the audio is clearly better. The Aiptek audio is loud and distorted - raucous. It must use autogain and just maximizes loudness.

I would not claim the built-in mic of the Kodak is great, but use a good stereo external mic along with the manual control without autoleveling and you get good sound. Loud sound should be for loud sounds.

I am not sure if you are complaining the Kodak never gets loud enough? with a dynamic external mic, you can get very loud, if you want that. What is desirable is natural sound. Aiptek does not have that.

My video of outdoors stuff captures nature sounds perfectly - you hear dogs barking in the distance, airplanes overhead, cars going by all in natural perspective. That is good sound - natural, not pumped up.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtL3EiS6BCE&fmt=22



OT: The bright colors of the Kodak in low light are amazing. I wish there was a fix for the faces in spotlights yellowing and whiting out. Here is where some manual control over exposure would be really useful. The Aiptek lost almost all colors, as you say (or as I think you say!).
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Old Dec 25, 2009, 1:35 PM   #595
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YwZuObdHf_Y

what I am showing is that the Kodak is LOW, the Aiptek is LOUD, that the Kodak must be adjusted up, or allow us with a setting to keep, we know that andsaid that over, and over.

You can see how a indoor enviorment is either incorrect with the audio.

so what do you think with the Outside
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Old Dec 25, 2009, 1:51 PM   #596
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It was never my intention to "represent" any forum or anyone else apart from myself, and yes Mark, I do have some contacts, but I was never going to approach them as a member of a forum... Nothing but a list of observations from a customer, that may go directly to the right department. At least that's what I thought, and I have to say this: The open and outright hostility which you have displayed when responding Mark, was uncalled for. I hope you don't get so heavy with every n00b that doesn't match up to your level of expertise. Your response felt pretty much the Internet Forum equivalent of an Army boot camp, and for the life of me I don't know what prompted you to respond in such a strange manner.

BTW this will be my last posting on this forum. Thanks for your help and real-world reviews Fishy, and also everyone else who responded to my noobie questions. Later everyone...

Last edited by =Alex=; Dec 25, 2009 at 2:10 PM.
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Old Dec 25, 2009, 1:56 PM   #597
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Same thing - Aiptek too loud and distorted, Kodak is ok. And great colors for Kodak, and muted colors (wrong) for Aiptek.

Aiptek sound is really, really lousy. Unacceptable. Kodak volume is fine. I don't get it; this is obvious. Doesn't need to be louder.

I really like how the kodak shows lights in darkness - rich, deep blacks and colorful lights.

I have recorded concerts with the kodak (just for the heck of it) while using professional audio equipment for the music. I sync the professionally-recorded audio to the kodak audio track (just for fun), so i see (in my audio editor) the wave files for both. the Kodak track has a higher default average level than my perfectly set professional audio track.

Where's the beef?
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Old Dec 25, 2009, 6:01 PM   #598
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markr041 View Post
Same thing - Aiptek too loud and distorted, Kodak is ok. And great colors for Kodak, and muted colors (wrong) for Aiptek.

Aiptek sound is really, really lousy. Unacceptable. Kodak volume is fine. I don't get it; this is obvious. Doesn't need to be louder.

I really like how the kodak shows lights in darkness - rich, deep blacks and colorful lights.

I have recorded concerts with the kodak (just for the heck of it) while using professional audio equipment for the music. I sync the professionally-recorded audio to the kodak audio track (just for fun), so i see (in my audio editor) the wave files for both. the Kodak track has a higher default average level than my perfectly set professional audio track.

Where's the beef?

Laughing, not at you, but I cannot complain, very pleased wit hthe GVS by Aiptek, and Kodak as alot to offer.

I wonder if I ave otehr scenes to compare that has a suttle or quieter clip.
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Old Dec 25, 2009, 6:04 PM   #599
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Quote:
Originally Posted by =Alex= View Post
It was never my intention to "represent" any forum or anyone else apart from myself, and yes Mark, I do have some contacts, but I was never going to approach them as a member of a forum... Nothing but a list of observations from a customer, that may go directly to the right department. At least that's what I thought, and I have to say this: The open and outright hostility which you have displayed when responding Mark, was uncalled for. I hope you don't get so heavy with every n00b that doesn't match up to your level of expertise. Your response felt pretty much the Internet Forum equivalent of an Army boot camp, and for the life of me I don't know what prompted you to respond in such a strange manner.

BTW this will be my last posting on this forum. Thanks for your help and real-world reviews Fishy, and also everyone else who responded to my noobie questions. Later everyone...
I am sorry t ohear this, I take no sides or worry bout te little tings here. like i said earlier. One will want to build their own cam, and he knows who he is............ so on so on

and other quad druple post and he knows who he is.

People come and people go, I hope you enjoy the time you stayed ere. come back and feel free t oask in a PM or public. I have no issues or beef, I am ere to coninue the fun. thanks
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Old Dec 25, 2009, 6:38 PM   #600
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Let's continue the fun...

How about the same external mic in the Zi8 and the GVS? Then we know what accounts for any difference in sound. I don't have the GVS or I would do it.
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