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Old Nov 26, 2009, 12:48 AM   #21
ecb
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i have the cg10
i dont have a footage of a concert yet, well not really, i just tested it for 2minutes in a little party with big sound system.
i was really impressed by the sound quality, honestly i never thought it could record loud sounds like this.
the problem is that u get some pro and cons with both zi8 and cg10

the cg10:
- u aint got a mic input (that may be good to record concerts)
- no mic gain control, its all automatic, but it do the job
- but hey, u get some manual controls (some settings dont seems to work at all, for example iso 800 and 1600 may not work on video, but maybe on pics, not sure, but i can tell you, those arent working on vids(i wil never use the cg10 for pics, coz i find the grain horrible)
- and 5x optical zoom (and 5x times is really great, maybe u'll find it nice to zoom at the singer or guitarist ...)
zoom is definitely better than the zi8
- and something that may be good for concert is the immovable and very bright lcd, that will hep u to get more angles easily.
- the cg10 ISO only seems to work up to 400, and with sensitivity on (it helps in low light), i must say its kinda noisy in low light situations, but now with some manual controls like adjust white balance, shutter speed, may help u to get good results.

now u must understand its a cheap cam, u wont get anywhere near a canon cam.

now the zi8, i dont have one, i cant really help you, but with the mic input u will certainly get good results too.

i bought the cg10 over the zi8 because of the manual controls mostly, and i dont regret my choice, even if i would be happy with a zi8 too.
but i still have in mind to get a better cam, with a better sensor and better lenses that all these cheap cams have.

note also that u'll have very shaky footages with all those cams because they very light, so u may have to think about purchasing a monopod, a tripod or stabilizer.
i find the shaking very annoying, even if u really pay attention not to move much, u'll get the shaky vids.
i added a little weight at the tripod screw to help, but i will definitely get a monopod.
well hope it helps.
feel free to ask more help, or maybe some examples if i can, i'll be glad to help more.
hey can you upload the footage from the party with the big sound system? if you could put it up in the native format of the camera that would be great.

i'm still debating but right now see either camera as a serious tradeoff (the CG-10 won't have great audio and the ZI8 lacks zoom, manual controls, and other niceties that might make it a reasonable backup camera, as well as needing a mic to get good audio). therefore, i'm leaning most towards the Zoom H2, though then i have to deal with syncing audio and video every time i want to look at what i've recorded, which is less than ideal. the nicest thing about the H2 is that it's useful all by itself and probably will be longer than either of the video cameras, since it does one thing i want and it does it well.

still, i'm not done deliberating yet, so whatever else people have to say will be taken into consideration.
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Old Nov 26, 2009, 10:19 AM   #22
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the cg10 have better mics than the other pocket cams, from what i see (hmm no hear)
now there is a kind of digital noise that u can hear when u record in nature or calm place, that is frustrating me a bit. but with a anti-noise plug-in, u can get rid of it.
anyway, its not really noticeable when u in a 'loudy' room.

that said, of course with a good external mic u will have better sound with the zi8.
now a good mic with gain control and all cost a lot too.
the gain control of the zi8 wont control the mic, it will just control the input, but if your mic is too sensitive, the zi8 will record a saturated sound not matter the gain control.

i will post a vid but not directly from the cam as some people asked me not to
so i will just cut a simple scene with a dj, so u can see how the sound is and the zoom, and the shaky vid.
it was almost my first day/night with it, must say im less shaky than this now.

but u can see how shaky it is and the 'wobbling fx' cause by the cmos sensor.

i think if i remember that it was recorded with iso 200 aperture 3.5 shutter 1/60 or 1/30 high sensitivity off.
rendered in h.264 at around 8Mbps sound aac 128Kbps 44.1KHz
video no edited, just some parts were cut

note also that the sound in this room was loud, but not good quality.
i will surely record real concert later, but no idea when.

vid link: http://vimeo.com/7837013 (at this time it still upload/convert)
password is just: test

Last edited by chkn; Nov 26, 2009 at 10:31 AM.
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Old Nov 26, 2009, 11:09 AM   #23
ecb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chkn View Post
the cg10 have better mics than the other pocket cams, from what i see (hmm no hear)
now there is a kind of digital noise that u can hear when u record in nature or calm place, that is frustrating me a bit. but with a anti-noise plug-in, u can get rid of it.
anyway, its not really noticeable when u in a 'loudy' room.

that said, of course with a good external mic u will have better sound with the zi8.
now a good mic with gain control and all cost a lot too.
the gain control of the zi8 wont control the mic, it will just control the input, but if your mic is too sensitive, the zi8 will record a saturated sound not matter the gain control.

i will post a vid but not directly from the cam as some people asked me not to
so i will just cut a simple scene with a dj, so u can see how the sound is and the zoom, and the shaky vid.
it was almost my first day/night with it, must say im less shaky than this now.

but u can see how shaky it is and the 'wobbling fx' cause by the cmos sensor.

i think if i remember that it was recorded with iso 200 aperture 3.5 shutter 1/60 or 1/30 high sensitivity off.
rendered in h.264 at around 8Mbps sound aac 128Kbps 44.1KHz
video no edited, just some parts were cut

note also that the sound in this room was loud, but not good quality.
i will surely record real concert later, but no idea when.

vid link: http://vimeo.com/7837013 (at this time it still upload/convert)
password is just: test
Hey thanks for uploading this. The sound is reasonably good, or at least about as good as I would as I would expect from a camera like this. Hmmm.

Looks like a good party too.
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Old Nov 26, 2009, 11:20 AM   #24
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wasnt really a party either, its more like a weekly based bar where people can play instruments
but yea was fun, as it was my first day with the cam i was a bit shy to run around everywhere and film and some people there asked me not to film them because u know, some substances are still illegal lol so it pretty much stopped me from filming there.

u may want to check this clip for a better concert vid: http://vimeo.com/6857771
the sound is pretty amazing for a cam like this.
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Old Nov 26, 2009, 11:31 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by chkn View Post
wasnt really a party either, its more like a weekly based bar where people can play instruments
but yea was fun, as it was my first day with the cam i was a bit shy to run around everywhere and film and some people there asked me not to film them because u know, some substances are still illegal lol so it pretty much stopped me from filming there.

u may want to check this clip for a better concert vid: http://vimeo.com/6857771
the sound is pretty amazing for a cam like this.
Wow that sound is amazing! Last night I went to bed thinking that I'd go with the Zoom H2 and stitch together the audio and video from my G11, but now that I've heard this I might need to reconsider. I know this is pretty different timbrally from recording drums in a practice space, but this definitely shows that the camera could be useful for some live music.

Dig the Hello Kitty floating by as well!
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Old Nov 26, 2009, 11:33 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chkn View Post
wasnt really a party either, its more like a weekly based bar where people can play instruments
but yea was fun, as it was my first day with the cam i was a bit shy to run around everywhere and film and some people there asked me not to film them because u know, some substances are still illegal lol so it pretty much stopped me from filming there.

u may want to check this clip for a better concert vid: http://vimeo.com/6857771
the sound is pretty amazing for a cam like this.
Oh and are all your videos recorded on the CG-10?
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Old Nov 26, 2009, 11:44 AM   #27
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yep these are my tests vids, all recorded with cg10: http://vimeo.com/bang/videos
i started a cg10 group in vimeo http://vimeo.com/groups/cg10/videos where i try to add tests vids that i can find, still need members now lol
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Old Nov 26, 2009, 2:10 PM   #28
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Default A good - super cheap - external recorder

http://3btech.net/msime5364gbu.html

If you're looking for an external audio recorder that's really cheap, I'd recommend this. It's $25 new. It records line level in LPCM WAVs 16/48. 4 gig onboard storage. Works well with soundboards. Also, you can plug a mic into the line in. It's a MP3 player, but the ability to hook it up to a soundboard or a mic and record at 16/48 uncompressed for $25 is a good deal. I've bought a bunch of these from them.
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Old Nov 26, 2009, 3:13 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by parocks View Post
http://3btech.net/msime5364gbu.html

If you're looking for an external audio recorder that's really cheap, I'd recommend this. It's $25 new. It records line level in LPCM WAVs 16/48. 4 gig onboard storage. Works well with soundboards. Also, you can plug a mic into the line in. It's a MP3 player, but the ability to hook it up to a soundboard or a mic and record at 16/48 uncompressed for $25 is a good deal. I've bought a bunch of these from them.
Interesting. I would have thought a mic would generate too low of a signal for a line input. Anything mic in particular you'd recommend for recording live music with this? Also reviews seem to indicate it's not the most stable piece of hardware. Have they worked OK for you?

I actually have something similar to this already; an iAudio U2 MP3 player with a line in, but the audio quality for inputs is quite bad. It does native MP3 encoding and it's a terrible encoder, so it's more or less doomed.
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Old Nov 26, 2009, 7:33 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parocks View Post
http://3btech.net/msime5364gbu.html

If you're looking for an external audio recorder that's really cheap, I'd recommend this. It's $25 new. It records line level in LPCM WAVs 16/48. 4 gig onboard storage. Works well with soundboards. Also, you can plug a mic into the line in. It's a MP3 player, but the ability to hook it up to a soundboard or a mic and record at 16/48 uncompressed for $25 is a good deal. I've bought a bunch of these from them.
I'm also interested on this. I finished reading through the manual..
http://www.msi.com/index.php?func=do...124&prod_no=71
.. and could not find references to the device being able to record LPCM @ 16 bits 48,000 (mono?)

Would you mind posting a sample WAV recorded with this device (and external line-in or mic) for reference? I'm so tempted to buy this low-ratings player from 2005.
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