Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital Cameras (Point and Shoot) > Hybrid Still/Movie/MP3 Digicams

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Dec 29, 2009, 6:55 AM   #11
Moderator
 
fishycomics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NYC NY
Posts: 9,621
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subc View Post
Zoom or not, you will find Rolling shutter on any CMOS based consumer camcorder with no motion compensation. You must understand the limitation of a CMOS sensor and how it captures every frame of video, in order to see where I am coming from. CCD sensors capture the whole frame at once, CMOS does not, hence rolling shutter.

That particular clip was shot at the maximum resolution and zoom that the GVS would allow.
so let me get tis clear, you shot with the max zoom allowed 20x zoom that is 5x opt and te 4x digital correct?
__________________
These are Pc low Budget Economy Hybrid camcorders Great for the Daytime Outdoor shots
Light on the Object video made. No light No Video
fishycomics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 29, 2009, 7:00 AM   #12
Moderator
 
fishycomics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NYC NY
Posts: 9,621
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin31 View Post
Fishy to the rescue! haha.
Aside that, Does any of your GVS models have the rolling shutter problem?
Thank you Colin, I am awaiting for Subc to answer, I wantto hear exactly what zoom he used, a little confussing wit his answer, maybe I missread, and no caffeen in me lol, ten I might be able to add my opinion. thanks
__________________
These are Pc low Budget Economy Hybrid camcorders Great for the Daytime Outdoor shots
Light on the Object video made. No light No Video
fishycomics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 29, 2009, 12:31 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,084
Default

Colin31,

Here is my opinion. Personally I find the rolling shutter effect tends to be overstated. Yes it is there and some camcorders do have it worse than others but in the real world I find I never notice it or it's not enough of a problem to bother. On the other hand you may be one of those who it bothers so you pays your money and takes your choice. If you think it is going to bother you, make sure you look at more than one video sample. The action in the video tends to compensate in my opinion as it draws your attention away from it. If you are constantly looking for it, then yes you will see it but as I said it doesn't bother me personally. ALL CMOS camcorders have it, even the more expensive prosumer devices such as the Canon HF100/200 etc.

Here are some sample Aiptek GVS videos I have shot. The second in a dimly lit aquarium.

http://vimeo.com/6307710
http://vimeo.com/5911821

Now you have to look at what features you NEED not want, then you can begin to compromise. For instance, I have found that for the type of shooting I tend to do, I often don't need optical zoom or at least not much of one and the 5x optical zoom is usually more than adequate. Any more you will need a tripod or good image stabilizer anyway.

Personally I can't go back to Standard Definition now and would rather put up with the limitations of a decent HD camcorder instead. When I show off video taken with my Aiptek GVS, I always get "it's so clear" etc. I have seen and played with footage from a Canon FS200 and it's nice video but meh! Also on Amazon, it's still $259 when you can now get the HD1010 for $70 more! I have the HD1010 and despite it's minor faults I know which I'd choose again if I had the choice. The Aiptek video looks stunning on a 50 inch flat screen considering it's a 'cheap' camcorder.

At the end of the day you need to live on vimeo.com and youtube.com etc and view a bunch of video samples. Now of course you really need the raw samples to get a true idea, but this will generally at least allow you to rule out the obviously poor video quality camcorders.

The Sanyo CG10 is a nice little camcorder as well. I still have a much older C40 standard definition. The CG10 also has full manual controls like it's big brother the HD1010 which tends to be unique in this category.

One thing to bear in mind is that you can often get away with less than you think you need ie you don't really need 60fps but it's nice if you can get it for instance as movement is smoother, not that it's terrible with 30fps for most situations.

Another thing to bear in mind the warranty on the Aiptek is actually much better than the Sanyo, even their higher models. I know as I took advantage of the one on my Aiptek when the Autofocus stopped working. They promptly replaced it but don't let that put you of the Aiptek as it was my first one to show a fault and I haven't heard of many having problems anymore than other camcorders. I even had a problem with my Canon Camera as well so nothing unique really.
rgvcam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 29, 2009, 12:31 PM   #14
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 12
Default

No problem Fishy. Haha.
Well, I aswell would like to know about if any of your GVS's have this major of a rolling shutter problem? Cause its a close pick between the GVS-features, and the CG10-good low light.
Colin31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 29, 2009, 1:49 PM   #15
Senior Member
 
subc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California, Sac area
Posts: 261
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fishycomics View Post
so let me get tis clear, you shot with the max zoom allowed 20x zoom that is 5x opt and te 4x digital correct?
I never use digital zoom with any of my cameras. It defeats the purpose of shooting quality video.

That being said, with a consumer CMOS sensor, rolling shutter will exist regardless of the zoom. Be it optical, digital, or just plain wide angle. This is not an issue with a CCD based camera.. doesn't matter if you use digital zoom or not.

So, no. There is no digital zoom on my video. But really is almost like we are talking about 2 different subjects if there is no clear understanding about what rolling shutter is and how it is present on pretty much all cmos based cameras (gvs, cg10, hd-50z, etc)
__________________
That's like.. your opinion man
subc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 29, 2009, 7:21 PM   #16
Moderator
 
fishycomics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NYC NY
Posts: 9,621
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by subc View Post
I never use digital zoom with any of my cameras. It defeats the purpose of shooting quality video.

That being said, with a consumer CMOS sensor, rolling shutter will exist regardless of the zoom. Be it optical, digital, or just plain wide angle. This is not an issue with a CCD based camera.. doesn't matter if you use digital zoom or not.

So, no. There is no digital zoom on my video. But really is almost like we are talking about 2 different subjects if there is no clear understanding about what rolling shutter is and how it is present on pretty much all cmos based cameras (gvs, cg10, hd-50z, etc)

That particular clip was shot at the maximum resolution and zoom that the GVS would allow.

thank you SubC.

When you said te above comment , max res and zoom allowed

the Aiptek GVS allows 1440x1080 res, and allows 5x optical zoom, wit additional 4x digital zoom, if in hd1080P some models only allow up to 2x while in a lower setting 4x .

this would be of what you said above 1440x1080 res and both opt and digital zoom.

Now I clearly have the answer tat you did not go further then the optical zoom

I thank you not clear before and now clear, was me not you budd thanks.
__________________
These are Pc low Budget Economy Hybrid camcorders Great for the Daytime Outdoor shots
Light on the Object video made. No light No Video
fishycomics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 29, 2009, 7:44 PM   #17
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 12
Default

I might just use some of my extra money and boost up to a Sanyo Xacti HD1010, Its got the best of both the GVS-Mic, stabilization, and 720p/60fps. And the CG10-good low light, better internal mic, manual settings. And it actually has a 300fps mode, for some awesome slow mo stuff, hehe.
Thanks all, Getting the camera Soon, doing a review, and it will be done.
Colin31 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 29, 2009, 7:58 PM   #18
Moderator
 
fishycomics's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NYC NY
Posts: 9,621
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin31 View Post
No problem Fishy. Haha.
Well, I aswell would like to know about if any of your GVS's have this major of a rolling shutter problem? Cause its a close pick between the GVS-features, and the CG10-good low light.
Colin...

thank you

Subc's excellent point, and Rgvcams excellent opinion.

http://www.mediafire.com/?hlbmgdynmwh

Well I am here not to sell you a cam nor preach what was said.

I own more ten one GVS and I just got another, that said I am happy, very pleased no issues with Rolling shutter, or wait, want me to go out and film and make sure 1000% yes I added that extra O in.

go out and enjoy shooting a clip, because, one will say
Hey dear, hon, could you do me a favor and go see if the Watertaxi is here.....

and by the te time you set up your shot on a Pro tripod, and wait for te wake to pass, and tap that person in fron on the shoulder, and getting ready to film,

your spouse has gotten on that Water taxi, and yelling. I hope you're happy, and gotten your shot. I'll see you on hte otherside.

you'll miss out.

enjoy the clip.

the Aiptek Action HD GVS is a great cam and very pleased to take it were ever we go, if I leave it behind or fell in the soup so be it, at least my scarlet, or FRed is in a safe place.
__________________
These are Pc low Budget Economy Hybrid camcorders Great for the Daytime Outdoor shots
Light on the Object video made. No light No Video
fishycomics is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 29, 2009, 8:36 PM   #19
Senior Member
 
subc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: California, Sac area
Posts: 261
Default

That's a very good point from fishy. Cameras like the GVS or even the CG10 are cheap enough to carry them around everywhere you go without being as concerned for the safety of your equipment. You can take more risks with them and are much more portable than more professional cameras.

So while still shooting HD footage, you will be able to obtain recordings you otherwise wouldn't, perhaps for fear to damage your expensive equipment, or because is not as portable as these cameras are.
subc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Dec 29, 2009, 8:57 PM   #20
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,084
Default

I'll add to subc and fishycomics in that I often find I will take my Aiptek GVS anywhere, even the beach whereas I wouldn't dare take my Sanyo HD1010.

For most purposes that I uses mine for, the Aiptek GVS video quality is near enough the same as the HD1010 for 1/2 the price.

For all Aiptek's faults they are now producing some pretty decent camcorders for the money. It wasn't that long ago many considered them toys although it was an inexpensive Aiptek that first caught my attention to the potential of flash based memory camcorders.

To be honest the only real fault of the Aiptek is that their inbuilt mics have too high a gain which causes distortion with loud music, yet for the kind of shooting I mainly use it for, ie family stuff, this actually becomes a plus and is the main reason Aiptek do this.
rgvcam is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 2:18 PM.