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Old Dec 31, 2009, 12:51 AM   #11
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imho im shocked that manufacturers found cmos acceptable with the rolling shutter
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Old Dec 31, 2009, 11:12 AM   #12
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Happy New Year to all of You.

A global shutter CMOS sensor looks promising, if they can keep the manufacturing costs down and mass produce it to consumer products. Which I personally think will happen but not as soon as we may want.

Reading this thread, the majority dislikes the CMOS sensor, because of the Rolling Shutter effect. And I agree with you it doesn't look good. But the CMOS sensor has come a long way and keeps improving regarding low light and the RSE. The camera/camcorder the sensor is implemented in also plays a big role. For instance the Sony HDR XR520V has a remarkable good optical stabilization and it kills the RSE to my eyes. If you put the same sensor in a low end hybrid camera without any stabilization, you get the usual crazy jellyvision in fast movements. I've seen people on Utube showing that a $5000 prosumer camcorder with CMOS sensor has the RSE too by shaking the camcorder like crazy. No doubt it's(RSE) there, but who in their right mind and health film like that.

Yes the CCD sensor handles fast movements and low light better but it's not without flaws. Most people forgets to mention vertical light smear/streaking and that colors aren't super either(mostly low end cams). I would rather have a little wobble in my video than huge crazy looking laser beams coming out of light sources and thus making your footage look like an amateur sci-fi movie. Well this was my experience with a SD camcorder recording a barbecue party in bright sunny ligth condition. Both sensors have pros and cons.

I haven't heard of any broadcasting cameras with CMOS sensors but Panasonic has released one implementing their own creation the Live MOS sensor. This sensor does low light better than CMOS and this is evident in their consumer HD camcorders, especially the Panasonic HDC-TM300/TM350.
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Old Jan 5, 2010, 6:53 PM   #13
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More on what a CMOS rolling shutter looks like, when a quick pan from either left or right looks like: (CLICK for larger version)



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Old Jan 6, 2010, 2:41 AM   #14
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More on what a CMOS rolling shutter looks like, when a quick pan from either left or right looks like: (CLICK for larger version)



Haha, I know the "broadcast quality" video you got those frame captures from.
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Old Jan 6, 2010, 12:12 PM   #15
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Yes CMOS rolling shutter can be particularly fun when used inside a moving vehicle or trying to shoot video through a windshield when it's drizzling and the wipers are on! You get some nice bendy wipers lol I have seen that effect many times with my camera phones.
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Old Jan 6, 2010, 8:34 PM   #16
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Yes CMOS rolling shutter can be particularly fun when used inside a moving vehicle or trying to shoot video through a windshield when it's drizzling and the wipers are on! You get some nice bendy wipers lol I have seen that effect many times with my camera phones.
Just like this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwsRFJtOnm8
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Old Jan 9, 2010, 12:24 PM   #17
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Global shutter has been around for a while, and I believe it si or was used on high end cameras too. It used to have a significant hit in space on the sensor, with reduced size of the circuitry and backlit sensor technology it probably does not matter as much now. During the DIY cinema camera projects we accessed cmos global shuitter sensor (fillfactory Ibis5a) a lovely chip for it's day (Kodak used that company to develop their first 35mm frame DSLR from memory) but it took a significant light hit when doing global shutter, because the shutter time was reduced.

But micron came out with cheaper sensors that also had a snapshot feature in stead of global shutter, and a number of sensors in hybrids probably have this feature unused. The other thing is that rolling shutter is less noticeable at 1/60th a second integration/readout, even less at higher speeds, so they only need to have cmos shutters that can read out at 120th a second. The red scarlet camera I am looking at has a 120fps (or is that 150fps now) 3k mode. Unfortunately for them 4K TV sets are coming (fullhd is slightly less than 2K 16:9) and my future scarlet might not even be able to do 5mp (turns out it is not framing that will even yield 6mp).
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Old Feb 2, 2010, 12:54 AM   #18
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Here's a side-by-side comparison video showing just how bad the rolling shutter effect can be during high vibration scenes, even on a $3000 professional grade Sony 3-CMOS camcorder, versus a Sony 3-CCD pro camcorder:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEaDrS-yzIE

Another comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSWDP1Tsj1Y
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Old Feb 2, 2010, 9:23 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by vwestlife View Post
Here's a side-by-side comparison video showing just how bad the rolling shutter effect can be during high vibration scenes, even on a $3000 professional grade Sony 3-CMOS camcorder, versus a Sony 3-CCD pro camcorder:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEaDrS-yzIE

Another comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSWDP1Tsj1Y
Great demonstration of the effect there in these videos.

The thing is, CMOS rolling shutter isn't going to be going away anytime soon in these low end cameras due to cost. Also it will be implemented in the prosumer line before it ever hits the low end. So best to keep to family and vacation videoing etc. But then again that is exactly the market these cameras are aimed at anyway.
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Old May 10, 2010, 5:01 PM   #20
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Hi

What's the latest on CMOS with global shutter? Are there any compact camcorders with it? I e-mailed Canon and in their first response it was clear they hadn't a clue what I was asking about. I complained and they then responded that all their CMOS camcorders have global shutter. Is this true? Why do I not believe them...

My initial searches for information was to determine any disadvantages to buying a DSLR like the Canon T2i as opposed to buying a camcorder. I know about the feature limits and physical handling limits but these do not concern me for my application. I was only interested in knowing if there were any quality issues I should know about in using the DSLR for video instead of a camcorder. The rolling shutter seemed to be an issue but now it seems camcorders for the most part also have rolling shutter. I don't believe Canon's response so I want to ask here so I can either get confirmation of their response or find out they really don't know what they are talking about.

Unless Canon's response is correct and their new camcorders do have global shutter I can't see any reason not to get the DSLR instead. It just makes a lot more sense to me, it will mount right where my old Rebel XT mounted and it can do both video and stills...apparently at the same time. That would be the perfect solution for me.

thanks,
Monte
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