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Old May 4, 2010, 12:38 PM   #11
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We disagree.

I have Cineform HD 720p .avi files scrubbing just as easily as standard definition DV .avi files on my slow laptop computer, which is powered with a 2005 era Athlon 64 processor that runs at 2.4 GHz.

Cineform .avi files are visually lossless... they utilize wavelet compression that is *non-lossy.* They are I-Frame, too. So they're much easier for the processor and Windows editing software to edit than typical compressed formats such as MPEG-4.

In fact, I can re-encode a Cineform .avi file five (5) times and not see any loss of quality, which makes this type of file format ideal for people who are inserting a lot of titles, transitions and filters over multiple layers of video.

There's not a freeware codec out there that will *perform* as well.

Sure, there's the Lagarith codec, but it's much slower. It takes more time to encode a Quicktime HD .MOV file to Lagarith than to Cineform.

The newest version of the Cineform codec makes the conversion very fast.

This is not any different than what Apple does on all of their computers; Apple provides the Apple Intermediate Codec (AIC), which is included in iMovie and Final Cut Express HD. If you buy the more expensive Final Cut Pro, then you can use either the Apple Intermediate Codec or the Apple ProRes codec. Both are lossless.

When you have a bunch of mixed source formats on a Windows computer, it's nice to use Cineform to convert them all to a single format that will be smart-rendered by virtually all of the major softwares... Magix, Corel, Ulead, Sony and Adobe.
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Old May 4, 2010, 2:41 PM   #12
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So for PERSONAL use it's great.

Cannot imagine one doing all this extra for Youtube and vimeo that is my opinion.

I am happy a company made a progam, and that all I have to do is edit..
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Old May 4, 2010, 3:07 PM   #13
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Fishy, the Cineform codec is great for people who want to export to YouTube because -- with one's timeline loaded with Cineform .avi files -- one can export from one's video editing software timeline to any format suitable for YouTube.

The advantage of Cineform is that it preserves quality of the original files that were used to create the Cineform .avi files. So if one starts with HD Quicktime .MOV or HD .avi or HD .M2TS, then one can convert all of these to Cineform .avi file format with no quality loss... then edit... then export.

The end result is a very high quality file. For YouTube, you could export to WMV HD as just one option.

You could just as easily export the entire timeline to Blu-ray Disc.

Or you could export the entire timeline to be a single Cineform .avi for archiving.
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Old May 4, 2010, 3:17 PM   #14
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By the way, people who have version 8 or below of Sony software may already have the Cineform codec and not even know it.

Sony stopped including the Cineform .avi codec in Vegas starting with version 9.

I have Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 8, which *does* include the Cineform .avi codec in the export options. So... in Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 8, I click...

1. File
2. Make Movie
3. Save it to your hard drive
4. Then click the NEXT button

...and then a pop-up menu appears. I select VIDEO FOR WINDOWS .AVI in the FORMAT drop-down list and then in the TEMPLATE drop-down menu I select HDV 720-30P INTERMEDIATE. You should then see in the DESCRIPTION FIELD the following information:

Audio: 48,000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo, PCM Uncompressed.
Video: 29.97 fps, 1280x720, Progressive.
Pixel Aspect Ratio: 1.000, using CineForm HDV codec. OpenDML compatible.

Sony was licensing the Cineform codec (although an old version) in Vegas 8 and prior versions.

I would guess that Sony stopped including the Cineform codec with version 9 for cost reasons; Sony probably had some deal going with Cineform that came to an end.

The only limitation of using Cineform that was built-in to Sony editing software was that the built-in version could only be used in the Sony software.

I wanted to use the codec in all of my Windows programs, including MAGIX, so I bought the independent version of the codec, which shows up in all of my programs.
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Old May 4, 2010, 3:19 PM   #15
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By the way, Sony Vegas Movie Studio Platinum 8 does not accept my Kodak HD Quicktime .MOV files properly.

The audio refuses to load.

So... to get around the problem... I first must change the file extension on my HD Quicktime .MOV files to be .MP4 instead.

Then, I can insert the .MP4 extension versions into the Sony timeline and the audio will load properly.
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Old May 4, 2010, 3:37 PM   #16
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yes something others told us about. same goes with the Aiptek.
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Old May 4, 2010, 4:04 PM   #17
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Another interesting -- but not well known -- fact:

MAGIX video editing software allows one to convert video to the so-called MAGIX VIDEO FILE FORMAT with a .MXV file extension.

This format is not lossless, but it's pretty good. It's actually nothing different than M-JPEG .avi file format... except it has a .MXV file extension instead. It can only be used in MAGIX programs.
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Old May 4, 2010, 6:06 PM   #18
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45sec clip t aken two minutes on the file you mentioned. and well what can one do with it? Can you load to Vimeo, can you load to Youtube, can you burn to a dvd? How will it open on the pc, qwill it open in win media player, will it open as quicktime in quicktime player.
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Old May 5, 2010, 3:14 AM   #19
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Still you have to convert your files to cineform avi format, so you lost time for compression. I don't see the benefits compared to avisynth. When you have edited your video using avisynth (filters, cut, transitions...) you just export the final result to a new mpeg4 format, or use a freeware losseless codec like Dirac can do if you want to keep original quality... The time you lost (1 minute for half an hour full HD video) to convert to avi and edit an avisynth script before editing and rendering is nothing to compare with a full recompression using the cineform format before opening the video, then doing editing, then compressing again the results in cineform avi format...

I also read that about cineform :

System Recommendation:
Compatible with P4 and above, but we’d recommend a minimum of a Core 2 Duo processor

Meaning they recommend Core 2 Duo processor, I think for full HD editing. Sorry but avisynth can do the same with those configurations, and I can open 720P videos on an Athlon 3200+ from 2002...

Again, Cineforme can be a good codec, but I don't really see the benefits compared to avisynth + other free video codec for editing video, even on slow configs (except it's easier to use, all in one).

In fact, all I can understand is that you use multiple rendering passes to generate effects, and that cineform keep the original quality... No use for Virtualdub, neither CS4, I can apply all my filters and copy it to another timeline for applying other effects without quality lost. And when rendering effects it generates intermediate temporary video files wich are losseless and I can use it again to apply new effects. I can't see how can be your needs to have a workflow which requires multiple recompressions. All I think is that if I need to edit my video and keep it with a lossless compression, I have other free codecs to do it...

I will certainly try a Cineform demo for a longer time, maybe I'll find some interest in it and buy it. But I'm rather sure it won't give me more than what I already use, even on my slow laptop. Cineform won't be bad, but I now believe it really doesn't worth the price. Of course we all have preferences for some software or hardware, often just because we are used to it, sometimes because we are looking for a compromise price / caracteristics, or simplicity...

Last edited by Xtsea; May 5, 2010 at 7:38 AM.
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Old May 5, 2010, 6:25 AM   #20
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Fuji finepix Z70 great HD video... low cost http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9Chb...layer_embedded

not CMOS..it's CCD so no jello effects

example of jello effect http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qC0_nIUq9s

Last edited by musket; May 5, 2010 at 7:37 AM.
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