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Old Jun 12, 2010, 5:58 AM   #11
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Anyway, I am an owner of the famous Canon HV30.
I am the owner of two Canon HV20 (the super-classic) as well as three classic Canon HF100, which are my workhorse cameras (at 24p).

However, the HF100 is pretty bulky, and also looks like a competent camera. Sometimes there is an advantage in taking movies without the quality of your recordings being overtly obvious.

Anyway - I have stumbled upon the killer problem (for me) with the Sanyo CG102.

The advantage of a CMOS sensor is the lack of generation of vertical purple bars when you are in a difficult lighting situation (like at 01:37 and 2:04 in this video: http://www.vimeo.com/12292094 ) (taken with a Panny ZS3)

But there is a lens flare problem in the Sanyo CG102. If you have a bright light just outside one of the four diagonal corners of the screen, it castes a flare back into the imaging frame. This is a real problem. I saw it on a video of a street, the street lights went all funny as they moved out of the frame, and it was trivial to replicate.

So, the reasons my CG102 is going back are
1. lens flare.
2. EV setting goes away when you close the cover to standby
3. Excessive horizontal lines at low light (from the NR software)
4. Zoom speed is way too fast and uncontrollable

I love the dual lens, audio, size, etc. It just doesn't take good enough photos in the environments I need to use it.

Sanyo still haven't produced an Xacti as outstanding as the C6 was in 2005. They seem to have lost the plot...
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Old Jun 12, 2010, 11:01 AM   #12
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If you're just a very, very casual user, fine.

But most people these days expect an external microphone input.

The camcorder manufacturers who market models without this feature will lose. I predict it.

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I'm sorry. Sanyo's Stereo built in mike has always been sufficient for me.
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Old Jun 12, 2010, 4:58 PM   #13
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But it is really the best of all the hybrids mentioned in this forum ever!!!
Hehe that's a pretty bold statement. The thing is, the best, most perfect hybrid camera to you, might not necesarrily be the best to everyone else. People have different needs, preferences, wealth etc. For example Private needs Mic-in and others might want the ability to use add-on lenses and so on. I'm not bashing the sx900 as it's probably a really good hybrid camera, for the average joe consumer. Do you own one? If yes please post some test vids and maybe a small review. Convince us.

The new Sanyo's looks great and the price level is lower than previous. Does this mean that other low cost hybrid camera makers will lower their prices even more?
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Old Jun 12, 2010, 5:15 PM   #14
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If you're just a very, very casual user, fine.

But most people these days expect an external microphone input.

The camcorder manufacturers who market models without this feature will lose. I predict it.
Really? Well ok I don't know much about the US camera market and trends but here in Europe the average consumer doesn't expect their camcorders, hybrid cameras or digital camera to have a mic-input. Especially in the lower end camera market. It's nice to have, but my guess is most consumers want portability, easy operation and does not want to fiddle with ext-mics or lenses. IMO the people who do want/need mic-inputs on low cost cams are a minority, atleast here in europe.

Last edited by adalfa; Jun 12, 2010 at 5:18 PM.
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Old Jun 12, 2010, 5:39 PM   #15
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here in Europe the average consumer doesn't expect their camcorders, hybrid cameras or digital camera to have a mic-input.
Agreed, and a professional (or aspiring-professional) is usually going to want separate audio recording which is then synchronized and mixed in post-prod. That is what I use my Pocketraks for -- I have several located at points in a shoot where I think I might get good sound pickup...

http://digitalmedia.oreilly.com/2008...2g-review.html

Often the microphones of the cameras give good ambient pickup as well, but they can never match properly located microphones with decent windsocks.

And their dynamic range is usually superior to the limited analog quality of a cheap camera.

Incidentally, the audio on that China video was the internal microphones in my Panny ZS3:
http://www.vimeo.com/12292094

Except for wind-noise, the sound is pretty good...

So I either use a good microphone with a good audio recorder, or candid video with the internal microphones. I have external inputs on the Canon HF100s and once had it on my HD2000, but never used them. Too inconvenient. A decent microphone is a significant investment, and a significant size. Its audio output is generally quite low.
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Old Jun 14, 2010, 11:37 AM   #16
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Again, I predict that camcorders without mic inputs will lose.

The reason is the Apple iPhone 4.

This product is going to revolutionize the camcorder industry.

If there is a similar iPod Touch with HD camcorder released later this year, then this will only confirm what I'm saying.

These devices will have the ability to use Bluetooth and there will likely be Bluetooth microphones that will allow the user to put the microphone virtually anywhere near the sound source and record over distance as bluetooth doesn't require any cables. It will be sound over-the-air.

Bluetooth is already being effectively utilized by Sony and Sony camcorders using this unique hot-shoe Bluetooth microphone here:

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665738362



Quality is excellent.

Just look at the happy reviews from customers.

This will be common.

Camcorders that lack decent sound will LOSE.
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Old Jun 14, 2010, 1:18 PM   #17
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This product is going to revolutionize the camcorder industry
Agreed 100%. People will have 720p video in their pocket, back-lit sensor...

Thanks for the link to the Bluetooth microphone -- been looking for something like that
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Old Jun 14, 2010, 6:40 PM   #18
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Again, I predict that camcorders without mic inputs will lose.

The reason is the Apple iPhone 4.

This product is going to revolutionize the camcorder industry.

Camcorders that lack decent sound will LOSE.
Really?? Again know nothing about the US camera market and trends but sounds to me you're saying that after 24th of june, everybody in US will be recording video with iPhone 4 and bluetooth mics. Consumers will discard their camcorders and get iPhones instead. One question: Are iPhones free in the US? I guess it's God's(Steve Jobs) gift to mankind. They are gonna revolutionize the camcorder industry and mobile phone industry. Next is the coffemaker industry..... Anyways I hope your prediction comes true, so I can move to the US and get myself a free iPhone 4.

Last edited by adalfa; Jun 14, 2010 at 6:46 PM.
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Old Jun 15, 2010, 4:16 AM   #19
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The key is that you will have a video recorder in your pocket whenever you see something worth recording. It may not be a good video recorder, but it will be good enough for the majority of YouTube viewers.

These new phones (Android as well) will make a big impact on the way HD is viewed by the public...
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Old Jun 15, 2010, 5:28 AM   #20
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yeah by the time it takes me to turn on my android and get to the video and startrecording

I already turned on my othercam recorded the actionand finished/
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These are Pc low Budget Economy Hybrid camcorders Great for the Daytime Outdoor shots
Light on the Object video made. No light No Video
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