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View Poll Results: Are you interested in going 4k, and how much are you prepared to pay?:
Like a regressive, I am not interested in going 4k. 0 0%
I am willing to pay more than $500 for a 4k ultrahd hybrid camera. 1 50.00%
I am willing to pay $300-$500 for a 4k ultrahd hybrid camera. 0 0%
I am willing to pay less $300 for a 4k ultrahd hybrid camera, you stooges. 1 50.00%
I am willing to pay more than $5000 for a 4k ultrahd TV. 0 0%
I am willing to pay more than $3000-$5000 for a 4k ultrahd TV. 1 50.00%
I am willing to pay more than $2000-$3000 for a 4k ultrahd TV. 0 0%
I am willing to pay less than $2000 for a 4k ultrahd TV, you stooges. 0 0%
I am willing to pay more than $1000 for a 4k ultrahd monitor or 27-32 inch TV set. 1 50.00%
I am willing to pay less than $1000 for a 4k ultrahd monitor or 27-32 inch TV set, please! 1 50.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Jun 21, 2014, 5:35 AM   #151
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How is the Aoc viewing off angle Donald, very little shift?
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Old Jun 21, 2014, 6:03 AM   #152
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Old Jun 29, 2014, 10:03 AM   #153
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INTEL NUC - selectable Win7 / Win81






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Old Jul 1, 2014, 11:19 AM   #154
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test 4K video GH4
video 32 sec

original - 3840x2160 = 315 MB mp4
Freemake - 1920x1080 = 18 MB mp4

DivX10/H265 - 3840x2160 = 20 MB mkv
DivX10/H265 - 1920x1080 = 11 MB mkv

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Old Jul 2, 2014, 7:09 AM   #155
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Here is a 4K - 32sec test of GH4 + 14-140
youtube compressed 4K from 315 MB to 41 MB

Unfortunately, youtube apparently can not handle HEVC/H265 File,
would be 1/16 as large (315MB ---> only 20MB).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iocqCXKy3SE
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Old Jul 13, 2014, 12:22 AM   #156
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Default Upcoming cameras, video quality datarates, new codecs and technology issues.

OK, the Panasonic 4k action camera is in retail, and their is a 4kp25 version.

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/1367112-post95.html

No news of the 4k version of the JVC PX100. I hope this will be a p50/60 version, which is the only thing that makes sense for this model.

http://nofilmschool.com/2014/01/jvc-...er-2000-px100/

I have been reading rumors of gopro looking at mobile chipsets, and that gopro have the hero 4 coming this year, and others next year, with ambarella A9 chip, but look at the size of the Panasonic action camera.

However, the A9 is out in the open now, so I suspect new cameras to come out with it. These things are made in bulk, unless you can manufacture 1-100 million of these chips, you can't get the best price. So you usually have to have multiple companies using it to make up the numbers. I wonder how many of the 4k video capable cameras below $2000 already use it. Most of these cameras are "Expensive" and can afford to purchase a much smaller batch for themselves at a much higher price, or a custom version like two A9 processing cores to produce 4kp50/60. Gopro is probably the only consumer camera company that can generate enough numbers for a production run in this range. However, to sell these numbers it has to be substantially better, otherwise consumers can stick to 1080p50/60. 4kp30 is not so much. However, for action, 36mbit/s 1080p50/60 4:2:0 h264 is not enough for best quality and editing apparently. 72mb/s or so GOP h264 10 bit 4:2:2, has been used in professional ENG news cameras, which would give very good quality for productions, home or professional, for freeze frame shots and slower motion, being nearer high grade film quality zone. So this is an advantage using the A9, and being able to use 1080p120 for slow motion. However, it is much better to have 4kp50/60 and 1080p240. Eventually 4k p120 3D 10 bit+ 4:2:2 or Bayer is needed with matching rises in data rate, so with 4k there are years worth of model upgrades before you reach this target. One of the reasons ambarella had the leading image
quality for low bit rates, is a post by a guy on a camera forum that presented a preferential list that accurately broke down how to sacrifice parts of an image in order to maintain the best quality for the data rate. Looking at still shots of action on gopro's you can see the reduction and shaping. Otherwise conventional image encoding used to make a mess of it.

GoPro bought a professional codec company years ago, so we are waiting for a professional camera, or the use of their leading codec used in professional video production and movies, in a hero like device. Maybe this is what the mobile phone chipset rumor is about, which are getting closer to being capable of using the cineform wavelet video codec. As for compression rates they use 10:1and lower compression for normal video and 6:1 getting premium bayer video compared to 4:1 or smaller for premium normal video, plus the Bayer video is at least 1/3rd smaller than normal video before compression to start with.
So 10:1 4kp50 normal video is approximately nearly 500Mb/s+, 4:1 is around 1.24Gb/s+, but 6:1 Bayer is approximately 553Mb/s+. This is not including a much smaller 2D-6D (maybe) wavelet version that I doubt they are looking at. Maybe they will look at inter or 3D temporal compression, but it is tricky to get your mind around how to process these most efficiently in a physical system. But this gets close to a 600mb/s h264 4kp50 non gop professional video and not too far off a 300Mb/s or so h264 gop codec equivalent. The delays are likely on getting a mobile chipset solution, as the normal ambarellas are not designed to do such. However, working together with ambarella to do a custom solution is likely to yield a lowered powered solution, and maybe increased efficiency with inter and 3D+ wavelet solutions.

The future is sketchy here. They have to realise that mobile chipsets are getting so advanced that 1080p versions with android are getting cheap enough for any competitor to be able to build competitors to 1080p gopro hero's and a7 chips for acceptable increases in power consumption. Once generic reference designs with sensor interface licenses are available, a wide range of companies could use it. But at the top end 4k-8k-holographic to h265+, wavelet, things might be so tight that manufacturers get a significant amount of real gains using a custom solution rather than a generic mobile chip set one. But, when much higher capacity battery technology comes the battery drain will be less significant except using a custom ambarella solution instead of a generic mobile chipset (before they start adding high grade custom processing solutions), might be the difference between 45 minutes and 90 minutes battery life, or 90 minutes and 180 minutes (a days medium filming usage) and the difference between a very hot camera and a handable one. The problem is that decreases in energy consumption per unit of performance from reduced chip manufacturing process size is tapping out. So that as they go smaller to go faster more energy leaks out of the circuit as heat. It used to be that while it was more at a new top speed, it was less at the previous top speed, but the drops in power consumption at low speed are getting less as they go smaller, and will eventually stop getting less and start increasing for any performance gain. So while you can get additional performance it will come at a lot more energy consumption. They have to move to different ways of making chips and totally different types of chip technologies to get around this, maybe this decade. You will notice that performance increases leveled out last decade for a fair bit, because the power consumption became so unruly they went to lowered powered designs rather than increase speed much. I have had ideas for methods to counteract these effects, but the industry struggles on in diminishing returns in their own efforts.

Thanks.

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Old Nov 11, 2014, 2:42 AM   #157
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Donald has a nice thread on the Panasonic HC-X1000 camcorder.

http://forums.steves-digicams.com/1382222-post1.html

Panasonic has a new small pocket micro four thirds stills camera with 4k video for around $700.

Other brands of m43rds still cameras, and phones, are including 4k. So now I think it is time to constrict listings here to the cheap and the extraordinary.

I'm still waiting for UHDp50/60 cameras. There are really nice phone chips coming, with lots of horse power, so we are getting closer to cheap UHDp50/60. Sony is preparing their Xperia Z4 next year, with new improved sensor. Hopefully it could have p50/60 modes, but no news yet.

A number of companies are also planning three color layer pixel sensors, but HTC is the only one doing this yet (but not 4k yet).
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Old Nov 11, 2014, 2:47 AM   #158
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The only real buy for serious sports users cheap on the horizon might be the JVC camera mentioned previously. But we have not heard anything, while JVC develops a s35 4k camcorder. We really need to move to 16mm, even 2/3rds sensors for these sub $1000 camcorders.
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Old Nov 11, 2014, 3:22 AM   #159
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Looks like my predictions have come true. Ambarella has released a 4kp60 h264, 4kp30 h265, security camera chip.

http://www.ambarella.com/news/64/74/...-HEVC-Encoding

This means a camcorder chipset might get released by ces 2016. However, it means that in regards of future advances we might be able to expect descent quality 4kp50 chipsets by the time power savings from silicon manufacturing profess shrinkage runs out. I was hoping 8k at some quality might be possible. This implies 288mb/s n h264, or 144mb/s in h265 at 8kp50, and half that in 8kp25, and twice as much at good quality. The good news is there are advances in flash and flash replacement coming. There is a move to new types of processing design to replace silicon, so using GaAs 8k should be possible, maybe more on portable devices. Using one of the other replacement processing technologies more than this could be possible, and even life recorders in 8k. These technologies are expected to start coming to the market by end of the decade.
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Old Nov 11, 2014, 4:39 AM   #160
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OK, here is some information on the new Sony sensors:

http://www.slrlounge.com/sonys-curve...ut-early-2015/

The phone quoted is supposed to be replaced with the Z4, but I noticed two different specs for the Z4 and it's sensor and its release date, going around. So there maybe two phones. March and September.

The sensor spec looks major, an 2/3rds inch 1.2 aperture lens, on a phone.
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