Go Back   Steve's Digicams Forums > Digital Cameras (Point and Shoot) > Hybrid Still/Movie/MP3 Digicams

View Poll Results: Are you interested in going 4k, and how much are you prepared to pay?:
Like a regressive, I am not interested in going 4k. 0 0%
I am willing to pay more than $500 for a 4k ultrahd hybrid camera. 1 50.00%
I am willing to pay $300-$500 for a 4k ultrahd hybrid camera. 0 0%
I am willing to pay less $300 for a 4k ultrahd hybrid camera, you stooges. 1 50.00%
I am willing to pay more than $5000 for a 4k ultrahd TV. 0 0%
I am willing to pay more than $3000-$5000 for a 4k ultrahd TV. 1 50.00%
I am willing to pay more than $2000-$3000 for a 4k ultrahd TV. 0 0%
I am willing to pay less than $2000 for a 4k ultrahd TV, you stooges. 0 0%
I am willing to pay more than $1000 for a 4k ultrahd monitor or 27-32 inch TV set. 1 50.00%
I am willing to pay less than $1000 for a 4k ultrahd monitor or 27-32 inch TV set, please! 1 50.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 2. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old Oct 6, 2012, 5:41 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
Wayne12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,071
Default The 4k UHD Camera watch thread.

(Update: I've put in a multiple choice poll, on if your are going 4k, and what you are willing to pay for a 4k ultrahd hybrid camera, TV or monitor. Please note the forth choice is wrong, it should be less than $300. Hmm, questions 5-8 are about UltraHD TV's, but I can't edit it.)

In case any of the people coming off google are wondering what a hybrid is, it is a small camera, ussually held like a gun with lens in the front, or like a phone, that is meant for video but often also a still camera, and may have audio recorder and mp3 etc. Sometimes they are shaped like a small cheap camcorder. They are often less than $300 sometimes more, often much less.)

--------

I was going to post a 4k watch thread after I caught up with some things around here, but Ambarella, that produces the chipsets of many of the cameras around here, has, finally, beat me to it with a new 4k camera chip. So I will have to rewrite what I was going to post and hopefully update it here.

http://www.ambarella.com/news/30/74/...ion-Video.html

4k p30, fullhd p120 frames a second.

http://www.ambarella.com/about/news-...ss-images.html

As we can see, it is meant for security cameras so far, and a video camera version can't be too far away. 4k compressed resolution is desirable in various security situations, instead of being held back by the lax lustre in the TV industry.

There is also a 4kp60 capable sensor chip in the Nikon J1, but not used as such, and omnivision has announced 4kp60 capable phone sensor. I forget if there were anymore yet.

If we look at older ambarella designs we can see 16mp p30 capability, but not for recording (maybe if you persuade it). However, it does mention 4mp video, and I thought I saw higher on one of the other chips.

Now, if they could only implement the high quality cineform standard proposal on these cameras in 10 bits or so, it will put these Chinese cameras in a new league. If not already, they should soon have the capacity to handle cineform on the gpu and CPU. Once this happens, Ambarella might need to be first with it.

http://www.ambarella.com/products/co...d-cameras.html

Looking at it this way. I have bought a audiosonic fullhd camcorder from Kmart for around $67. I bought it because it was the first low priced one I saw using p25 (p30 lowers compression and gets really horrible low light performance from 50hz lighting interference over here). Surprisingly well equipped featured and quality (mid range low end, what we used to pay $300 for years ago near the beginning). The 4k resolution is four times more resolution than this camera, but I suspect first cheap cameras maybe $500+.

Last edited by Wayne12; Dec 1, 2012 at 12:21 AM.
Wayne12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old Oct 6, 2012, 5:47 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
Wayne12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,071
Default

You can help, by post information using the following links, when I'm not around. If you find information on future 4k hybrid cameras, forget any other site, post a link here instead. We are also interested in 4k stuff, displays etc to use with our 4k cameras.

http://www.engadget.com/tag/4k/

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/tags/4k/
My local Gizmodo has had an update, but now is slow and clunky, complex for me. When will people learn, no one really wants to use straight information sites that act like an interactive demo.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_UHDTV and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultra-h...ion_television

http://www.ultrahdtv.net/

Last edited by Wayne12; Apr 5, 2013 at 10:32 AM. Reason: New Link 3
Wayne12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 6, 2012, 11:16 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Wayne12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,071
Default

OK, 103 views, no replies, don't be shy! Time to get excited again guys, things are starting to move after the Panasonic (ex Sanyo hd2000) and Kodak etc led drought. feel free to drop in, bookmark the page, and talk among yourselves. The next three months should be the most interesting up till the January announcements in, or after, CES. The following three months should also be interesting with first cameras.

Any manufacturer out there like to give an advanced review, our moderator fishycomics is the guy to contact. Even big manufacturers like JVC and Sony do this sort of thing months before release on key models.

Last edited by Wayne12; Nov 4, 2012 at 10:52 AM.
Wayne12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 7, 2012, 6:56 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,196
Default

Since loooong time available

http://geizhals.at/eu/730778

• 8.30 Megapixel CMOS (1/2.3")
• Aufnahmemedien: SDHC/SDXC
• Videoauflösung: AVC H.264 ([email protected])
• Fotoauflösung: keine Angabe
• 10x optischer Zoom (42.5-425mm, 1:2.8-1:4.5)
• optischer Bildstabilisator
• 3.5" Touchscreen Farb-LCD-TFT (920000 Pixel)
• 0.24" Farb-LCD-Sucher (260000 Pixel)
• 4x SDHC-Card Slot (SDXC-kompatibel)
• Anschlüsse: 4x HDMI (Out), XLR (In)


Manual: http://www.service.jvcpro.eu/public/...odel=GY-HMQ10E

Last edited by DonalDuc; Oct 7, 2012 at 7:01 AM.
DonalDuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 7, 2012, 10:04 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Wayne12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,071
Default

I like this version better:

http://www.eoshd.com/content/498/mee...h-is-4k-for-2k

But what looks $2k didn't come out as such.

The omnivision 4k sensor:

http://www.videomaker.com/videonews/...r-for-phones-2

A little USB.0 camera for inspiration:
http://www.ptgrey.com/products/flea3...sb3_camera.asp

I can't seem to find the dxg or go pro links again yet.

Last edited by Wayne12; Oct 9, 2012 at 10:00 PM.
Wayne12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 9, 2012, 7:04 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
Wayne12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,071
Default

One could make their own camera from that chipset. The problem is whatever you do will likely be outdated around the corner from a cheaper Chinese manufacturer, unless you do it properly.
Wayne12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 9, 2012, 9:54 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
Wayne12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,071
Default

Looks like I might have got that DXG thing wrong. The only article I can find that might be it, does not cover anything by the looks of it. But for manufacturers, remember that nobody much had fullhd televisions when the fullhd cameras came out either, but we bought the cameras and our footage worked on our newer TV sets.


OK, I saw the new film "Mental" last night staring Toni College, brilliant, got to see it. This gies to what is happening at gopro. Anyway, they used gopro cameras for some footage. I had wondered why David Newman was showing off a 24fps fullhd 36mb/s firmware. He is this quaint guy from my old group that heads up engineering at cineform now owned by go pro. He has some talent, so hope to see 4k versions of go pro (but battery life would be the problem even doing fullhd p60 at 36mb/s. There are ways around this. What is evident, is that even fullhd p60 is not too extreme, and 4k is what extreme sports people, and film crews, will want on bigger screens, the high data and frame rate eventually.

http://www.eventcinemas.com.au/movie/Mental
The movie is better than the trailer, except one scene. The color from the Red Epic camera was good.

http://gopro.com/gopro-partners-with...2-at-nab-2012/

Semipro versions:

I wonder who will be the first to make a semi-pro micro 4/3rds or s16 4k camera. It could be done in pocket with some of the thinner lens technologies.

Developing/firmware camera:

For those wanting to change the firmware on their cameras, I have found this interesting thread, that has software and a manual for it, and software for the zx3 and other cameras. Can somebody contact the guys around here that were interested in this? :

http://goprouser.freeforums.org/stic...ies-t4961.html


Nikon:

I have read that Nikon has potential interest in doing 4k, but the J1 replacement does not have it. I could have bought it.

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/653...amoto-of-nikon


Some more sensors:

http://image-sensors-world.blogspot....ensor-for.html

http://image-sensors-world.blogspot....on-pixels.html

https://chipworks.secure.force.com/c...hText=MT9J007*

http://image-sensors-world.blogspot....l-in-18mp.html

http://narod.ru/disk/61164419001.0c9...r-10312011.zip

I forgot, I think the JVC HMQ10e uses an aptina sensor.

Last edited by Wayne12; Nov 12, 2012 at 11:52 PM.
Wayne12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 9, 2012, 10:18 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Wayne12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,071
Default

We are keeping watch for 4k cheap pocketable cameras with a hybrid range of features in particular rather than above $1000 cameras. I expect, Red, Black magic and Apertus, to have interesting offerings by NAB show next year as well, but none in our range. But once again, JVC Pro delivers, while nobody else is there. Pity JVC consumer dies not do the same with 4k. Also note that they are using multiple HDMI outputs, rather than a more recent 4k single HDMI output. How many years has this camera been ready on the drawing board? The TV manufacturers did not understand, better to buy 4k 3D than 3D FullHD. Trying to not upgrade technology in a low economy ensures less sales, now discounting has crushed margins. Something significantly better is worth spending more on (3D was nearly a $0 game for turn over, anything above 10-20% should stratify the market rather than increase sales, which leads to discounting. What happened). They just devalued the customer response to 4k by introducing 3d before it, rather than with it. The market according to Wayne, and how often I am right.
Wayne12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 11, 2012, 8:16 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 3,196
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne12 View Post
I like this version better:
http://www.eoshd.com/content/498/mee...h-is-4k-for-2k
But what looks $2k didn't come out as such.
This "rumoured to be around the $2K mark" camera IS above JVC ... price $/€ 6.000, now $/€ 4.500
DonalDuc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Oct 18, 2012, 10:18 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Wayne12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,071
Default

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/vid...-4k,18517.html

GoPro Hero 3 black edition, 4k at 12fps, at $400, a bit useless, but has up to 240fps video modes, and 12mp stills. Integrated wifi. But as a slap to Red and BMC they also have a 48fps 2.7k 1440p mode cheap, the real worth of the camera.

I'll guess, the regular 4k market will be $800+, at least 24fps. I'll guess, there is a limitation taking still 4k frames off sensor, maybe sensor is limited. $400, for 4k p12 I don't think so, but it includes high speed modes, and that 2.7k p48 cinema like mode, so a tick.

I guess we might see a true 4k video version in the coming year, maybe by NAB in April.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonalDuc View Post
This "rumoured to be around the $2K mark" camera IS above JVC ... price $/€ 6.000, now $/€ 4.500
That is what I was saying, it is a shame it did not turn out to be a cheaper consumer model. I think the $2k might even have been some confusion about it's true value in consumer form.

Donald, how should we address you, is Donald your real name?

Last edited by Wayne12; Nov 12, 2012 at 11:57 PM.
Wayne12 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 8:00 PM.