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Old May 24, 2008, 7:26 AM   #191
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Found a number of new cameras at DXG, and conflicting information on another model at B&H photo.

http://www.dxgtech.com/product_DVH.p...aFocus=221x220
http://www.dxgtech.com/product_jpg/DVH596.jpg

But this camera:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc..._HD_Flash.html

Is listed as 1080p but the 595 model on the site as 720p.

http://www.dxgtech.com/product_jpg/DVV581.jpg
http://www.dxgtech.com/product_jpg/DVH569.jpg

Just cute, in the right color, preferably not pink .

http://www.dxgtech.com/product_jpg/DVS567.jpg

Also found an unlisted Digilife 1080p model on ebay (but seems to be 720p30).

http://cgi.ebay.com/DDV-1080HD-High-...QQcmdZViewItem

Well the exclusive reign of Aiptek and Sanyo might finally be over.

A word of warning to any newcomers: To get maximum resolution with maximum purity, the senor pads on a image sensor chip usually has to divide into the recorded pixel evenly. This avoids interpolation problems and cropping.

What does this mean, practically 1280*720p video requires at least 1280, 2560 or 3840 non interpolated pixels across. 1920*1080 video requires 1920 to 3840 pixels across. 3840 pixels across is the common resolution for both formats. However, 5mpixel cameras are approximately 2560 pixels across and likely to relying on resolution robbing interpolation cropping, or dropping pixels (though I doubt that is done much).
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Old May 28, 2008, 3:21 PM   #192
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Found three new HD 1080 capable cameras.

The Silos HD 8080, looks like an digilife 7300, but is HD instead.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/3-0-HD-1080p-...QQcmdZViewItem
http://digilife.manufacturer.globals...der-Series.htm

Digilife:
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Free-8GB-1080...QQcmdZViewItem
http://digilife.manufacturer.globals.../DV-Camera.htm

Page (but says 720p mode is 30 and 60, which?). Now to find out what sensor and what bitrate. I don't get replies back from Digilife.

I have removed the Speed, it says 1080i, but says video is 720p. Not interested, can't find the website, but what I have seen leads me to believe it is 30p.
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Old May 28, 2008, 4:09 PM   #193
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Could I make a suggestion. What about links to manufactures main sites down the bottom of the link. Can take long time to find some of them through google.
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Old May 28, 2008, 4:16 PM   #194
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This ebay item actually has links to samples of the 1080p Digilife, convenient:

http://cgi.ebay.com/DDV-1080HD-High-...QQcmdZViewItem
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Old May 29, 2008, 3:35 AM   #195
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Interesting video, Wayne. No image stabilization in use, but not bad for fixed lens. Compression is far to strong, for example, look at the blur-blobs on the stuffed toys in the distance of the night shot.

No power socket as far as I can see. Maybe the USB connector will take enough power to run the camera, I doubt it. Battery is a reasonable size.

I don't sense it is a good 1080p resolution because of compression and interpolation limitations. It is a good 720p, however (in the 1080 mode).

Microphone is abysmal. Only the Sanyo HD700/HD1000 got the microphones right...


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Old May 29, 2008, 4:02 AM   #196
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Believe it or not, I have only just got the ebay listing page to load successfully (well I hope all the images are there fully). However, I have been unable to load those videos while trying to download the page and other work.

However, 1080p, I can guess in advance that 1080p will be less than spectacular to a professional eye at 9mb/s, however I am interested in 720p60 myself. The DXG might have enough data rate to do better. However, if it takes 9mb/s to get 720p30 acceptable, you can imagine how much you need for 1080p50 (24mb/s, maybe 18mb/s).

If you want descent 1080p30 have a look at the Samsung with ambarella chip (Canon is more expensive, but maybe better, we are still debating that in the link below). For 720p the Toshiba with ambarella is untested, but good bitrate and I wonder how good it would be. If you want interlace 1080, then there are a number of cameras, including the Samsung and Canon, but the SR11 and 12 Sony (and tape versions of these cameras) have excellent pictures from the limited examples I have seen. the little TG1, I don't expect the picture levels to be much different than the TG1 (probably similar pixel technology).

Samsung compared to Canon and old Sony, but read the comments about the comparison, and try the redone comparison link (when we figure out how to play it).

http://www.vimeo.com/1033083
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Old May 29, 2008, 5:31 AM   #197
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Wayne,
As with most things photographic, you need to have experience to get it right. That Vimeo comparison is a joke, because they didn't understand the full capabilities of the Canon.

I have two Canon HV20s and a new Canon HF100. I run them all at 24fps. It takes a lot more expertise to extract the 24p video from the AVC stream, but the results are worth it. Near-perfect 1440x1080p video from the HF100 is achieved at a data rate of 14 Mbps, and it doesn't do badly at 9Mbps. The HV20 uses HDV and it outputs 25mbps. Many professionals use the HV20, despite what the Vimeo reviewer might think about it. Take a look at http://www.HV20.com

So there is no need to guess at what can be achieved at a given bit-rate. Now, the question is, can Ambaralla really keep up? I have not seen the proof just yet. Let's wait and see what new cameras are released next month :-)

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Old May 29, 2008, 9:01 AM   #198
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Take a look at the guys profile, he is an old professional (likely unlike many HV users). People get too overboard with HV quality, it is scraping mid pro quality, codec wise (except the 24fps mode has enough bandwidth for the job). If you compare the footage from a real pro cam, digital cinema camera, or lossless, you should see it more striking.

Ambarella was better per MB/s than the footage from the original AVCHD cameras that I saw, the thing is that ambarella was using too little mb/s. I imagine that the Japanese have caught up a lot by now.

I am more than guessing. Been involved with DIY Digital Cinema projects, and have some experience with the codec quality of a range of cameras including hybrids from the Sanyo HD1 on wards. In "theory" experience is all there is, in reality a bit of thought goes a long way on top of it. And my estimates have proved to be rather close, with 9mb/s Ambarella h264 pretty much being what was expected. Examining it closely, and you can see how 18mb/s would give it valid professional quality. I am talking about minimum pro quality for mid range professionals (XDCAM HD level).

You can work this out broadly by examining footage for where it falls over, and having a knowledge of the compressions ratios of different codecs to get similar quality (which changes over time as codec technique improves). There is also how it handles increased resolution and frame rate and motion (have a little idea about the resolution and frame rate aspects).
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Old May 29, 2008, 5:50 PM   #199
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Trevmar,

I have to agree with you about the 1080 footage they are using. Haven't managed to get the footage to download either, but I have calculated a basic file bit-rate off the bits of file so far and it seem less then the Aiptek at under 7.5mb/s. We can only hope this is just some lower quality mode, but don't like the color and murkiness of the footage either. Turning the brightness down (oddly, even up) makes the picture look better, as one dulls some colors and the other washes it out.
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Old Jun 2, 2008, 9:04 PM   #200
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The Digilife Global website is showing three new models.

The DDV-1080HD , already mentioned earlier in this thread, is 1080p (1440x1080), fixed focus with 5MP CMOS sensor.

The DDV-V3HD is 720p, fixed focus with 5MP CMOS sensor. The TBD's in the specs tell me this is not in production yet.

The DDV-Z530 is 720p, 5X optical zoom with 5MP CMOS sensor. It has a bigger camcorder form.


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