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Old Oct 20, 2005, 8:04 PM   #1
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Last night I made a movie out of a bunch of video clips. It was pretty easy, and I thought the results were quite attractive. With titles, background music and fades/wipes, you don't even notice the video quality is not up to commercial standards. It is a vast step up from replaying the images one-by-one. I have a few minor issues to deal with, such as how to lower the volume of the background music so it doesn't conflict with audio on the video clips.

I have a major problem, however. The movie is about 16 minutes long. With about 50 video clips and 20 stills, fades, three background songs, and titles, it came out to be 3.4Gb. Yet, the component files don't add up to more than 200Mb. I'm going to experiment to see what conversion/saving combination will reduce this while not costing quality. It took about 1 minute to render for every minute of the movie, so that's not bad.

The original video files run about 13Mb per minute, and are MPEG4, .avi format. I can provide additional specs on them if it helps sort out what the problem is. The songs are just mp3's, 1Mb per minute. The camera uses sd cards for storage, no tapes.

I'd like to know if that bloated output is typical for this sort of production. If not, any ideas how I can shrink the output? And if it is normal, how do I deal with it?

Obviously I can't upload a 3.4Gb file into my camera, even if I put a 1Gb sd card (max) in it. And I have only 512Mb cards. Even if I could get the movie into the camera, there's no way the camera can properly process data that fast. (It takes 34 minutes to fill up a 512Mb card with video.) So I have no way to get the movie onto a tv or vcr. I was thinking I could copy the movie to a DVD, but I don't have a DVD player. If I bought a DVD player, can I then copy the movie from the DVD to the vcr? Can I get an a/v out card for my pc that would allow copying directly from the pc to the vcr or tv? These latter two solutions would bypass the file size issue.

I also noticed the output is 720x480, while the original files are 640x480. Is this good or bad, and should I find a way to keep the resolution at 640x480?
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Old Oct 21, 2005, 9:20 AM   #2
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What software are you using? What codecs are you using in youroutput file? By the way 720x480 is DVD resolution, if you want to play the file back on your camera you mightneed to stick to it's native 640x480 resolution. With most MPEG-4 codecs like with the Xvid codec, for example, you have completecontrol over the bit rate and quality to the point where you can actually make any video fit in any specified amount of space.A codec like Xvid canbe configured tospend more time,likerunningtwo passes, to analyse your input video to produce the best quality possible in the smallest amount of space. Using two-pass Xvid Ifit a full two hour movie at full DVD resolution and quality in 700MB which makes ita bit-rate of only 800Kbps,and EDIT: ok, I need more sleep I previously made confused math again. ...I'll tryonce more:with 16 minutesof video weighing in at3+ GB there is somethingdefinitly wrong, you musn't be using an MPEG-4 codec, that's a 30Mbps bit-rate andsounds more like uncompressed video/audio. 16 minutes even at 1Mbps, which is ample foran MPEG-4 codec and stereo MP3 audio codec,would only take 120MB of space ((1048576*(60*16))/8 = 120MB) (ok, that makes more sense :G). There are AV bit rate calculators out there that are useful. The movie/TV ripping underground has good information on codecs, you can find useful information and guides at places like Doom9.org.

If your goal issimply to output this to video cassette, then yes, if your PC has video out, you can connect a VCR and record directly from there, or, as you say, you can burn a DVD and go that route.
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Old Oct 21, 2005, 11:20 AM   #3
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update: sgspirit , i am loading a 4.2 gig movie resolution unknown may be of dvd quality, and saving as asf file, from win dvd creator, then I am going to compress down to 1 gig, or 512 sd, then see if there is a great loss on the camera, as well as the big tv I believe that will cut to the chase on your question?

add'l update , 346 kbps 30 fps at 1:45 min long. 246 mb file size asf loaded to camera unsusessful , converting over the coversion is at 15 fps at 3 meg bit for vid 96k for audeo at 320x240 res the orginal res may be at 720x540 unclear to check .

orginal format on the tube nice, on the pc nice orginal format

converted to asf file on the pc good, on the camera , , on the tube

outcome can be done. time to transfer vid to asf file the length of the movie 5 min extra

the time to convert from asf to camera format around 8-15 min .Playing on win media 3368kbps at 14.9 fps 668mb file size,quality still looks good and same size as before, time to download to camera 5 minutes.

cameras first look at the movie transfered in. going to the Movies my friends Perfect

on a lcd 42 inch pixalted, watchable but annoying hope that cleared it up gonna post the vid later

240 plus mbwasa nice size, but the transfer rate 3x 9tripled ) it. not a problem for a 1hr 45 min vid. with almost half of the storage left. my next step is to shrink the file by half lose the quality , as it is on the camera 2 1/2 lcd play will not even damper the movie. it is possable will update at a later time.


1. Sspirit. you made a movie out of some clips, what software did you use?

and I believe it is from the camera which is???? Power director by cyber link? taking a guess sg.... the digilife 810?

2 you would also like to save it on a sd card and play back to he tv from the camera?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Aipteks software called newsoft video works 6

steps to lowering the mp3 songs or video sound load vid in and then load aud track in simple to do. then click on the old rca player the styrophne ( guessing the name lol) see import just under that there are 10 tabs an a arrow<<< the 7th one is clicked and you see the clip audio effect add file remove etc, towards the bottom section you just drag to the left . The song is louder the video is lower, depending on how loug you want it and how long END

fig 1

This is Win movie maker2 xp operating system the top line says file edit view tool and more click on tool go down about 5 or so lines you'll see volume click on it and again just drag the volume in the center to the song or video, the problem with this you have to do this to each and every clip. if you are editing, I believe if you save the whole movie go back and do it once I never tried that option another way is you go to the audio music line and right click and lower volume and the song will be louder or lower. END

fig 2

the last two pics are power director open up and add your vid then you add your mp3 songs., on the left sidethe 5th one down click see figure four go there .

fig 3

this screen pops up and while playing the video click on the video volume drag the mouse to its end the margin tabs you see very fine in the video line are made you can lower the whole vid or portions. , then go to the music and either raise or lower, you may have to play or drag th mouse on the time line and click start or end it'll place a margin tab and you 'll see it raise or lower. this will lower the video and play the music. so ther may be parts you want loud and then silient. this seems to be far better then movie maker in a way ,as well as video works6 from Aiptek End

fig 4


Sgspirit I understand none, some most , and all know this, not saying that you do not. we all cannot afford expensive pcs, or expensive so or even software. even high speed internet. that said lets see if the next step will help or not

2. loading to the camera, I have those cameras and have I ever burnt a dvd to the disk yes how many times not too many. a few.

Nero6 or 5 can be a start http://www.nero.com it is a cd burning software, as well as dvd. if you have a cd burner vcd will be a start, dvd burners are pritty cheap rather say less expensive today. 40.oo usc eventhe disks sales tax and a postage stamp costing 5.00 the most for 20 plus.dvdr's

If you have win movie maker best solution is to downgrade compress the file under 512, and load to the camera. under wmv or avi. 2.4" wil look fime if viewing but if showing to a friend on a big tv it still should look good as long as you save 640x480 or less. i will have to try out my camera anda file on the tube thinking of it.( trusting my mustek to be superior). Will cybershot power director do this? yes

Power director will bur n a cd disk and if you upgrade will burn a dvd, it is limited to cds not complaining o there is a drawback on saving the 3 gig right off the bat with this brand. you may save it to the pc and then later burn it with your dvd software save as dv-avi. (understand you do not have a dvd burner.

movie maker you save as a dv-avi and burn to dvd with dvd software and aswell as videoworks

Video works you may save under a few extra formats and compress as well , that should hold true to all software titles.

Sgspirit if all fails, and you need a dvd burned possably someone can do this for you near if not you can always find a way? here is a link that will allow you to send that file http://www.yousendit.com/Yes 3. plus gigsmay take foever ona landline, but it may be priceles when you have that dvd burnt. Hope this helps you out and others who have that question at hand , teach one do one show one. Mod fishy
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Old Oct 21, 2005, 10:09 PM   #4
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Thanks for the guidance, Caelum and fishycomics. My software that I neglected to specify is Cyberlink Power Director, oem version.

I now need to reexamine what I was doing, and experiment with a shorter video. I'll keep you posted.
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Old Oct 21, 2005, 11:29 PM   #5
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I'm not personally familiar with that software. If this software doesn't permit you to save utilizing specific codecs (and configure them), there is available open source software avilable to simply process/convert video. I use the open source GPL'edVirtual Dub to process .AVI files. You could take the large file output by your editing software and pass it through Virtual Dub simply to compress it with full control over the codecs.
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Old Oct 22, 2005, 12:00 AM   #6
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Seems to me I couldn't find a version of VirtuaDub that would accept .asf files, even the older version that was supposed to. I tried all sorts of things a few months ago, eventually finding using a combination of Stoik Converter and then VirtualDub worked to produce avi's that worked in my DDV-720.

By the looks of it, CyberLink PowerDirector includes Stoik Converter, so I just need to revisit the detailed settings for output.

The "fast and dirty" solution is to get a DVD deck, since I see they're cheap and my pc has a DVD burner.
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Old Nov 8, 2005, 12:31 AM   #7
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Caelum wrote:
Quote:
A codec like Xvid canbe configured tospend more time,likerunningtwo passes, to analyse your input video to produce the best quality possible in the smallest amount of space. Using two-pass Xvid Ifit a full two hour movie at full DVD resolution and quality in 700MB which makes ita bit-rate of only 800Kbps,and EDIT: ok, I need more sleep I previously made confused math again. ...I'll tryonce more:with 16 minutesof video weighing in at3+ GB there is somethingdefinitly wrong, you musn't be using an MPEG-4 codec, that's a 30Mbps bit-rate andsounds more like uncompressed video/audio. 16 minutes even at 1Mbps, which is ample foran MPEG-4 codec and stereo MP3 audio codec,would only take 120MB of space ((1048576*(60*16))/8 = 120MB) (ok, that makes more sense :G).
Ok, I'm back to working on this again.

I was able to find all the settings to match the movie output to the original clips. However, using "Single Pass" output, I got the bloated output file. So I tried the option of creating an Xvid file in two passes. The first pass went fine, and created the same size file as the large ones I'd ended up with previously. This operation seems to require two separate rendering passes (called "Twopass - 1st pass" and "Twopass - 2nd pass"), and no matter how I tried to start the second pass, I'd get the same error message: "Statsfile not found". There seems to be nothing about this in the applications's Help directory, so I'll have to research it on the Internet.

There's also a Bitrate Calculator and a place to set a target bitrate, but so far I've left that on the defaults, which says either 0 or 16kbps.
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Old Nov 8, 2005, 8:19 AM   #8
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With Xvid seton defaultsin single pass mode, you shouldn't get a bloated file. Two pass will mostly enhance the quality rather than reduce the size.If you set video compression to Xvid and then look at the configuration window, itshould look something like this:


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Old Nov 8, 2005, 11:45 PM   #9
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On the second pass of the 2-pass method, it does allow you to set the bitrate, or the target size for the output file.

After spending hours running into the "Statsfile not found" error message whenever I start the second pass, I found that if I manually set a statsfile name, and manually ensured it was specified for the second pass, the second pass would run ok. However, then I again ran into quality/size issues. The default output file of the second pass is about 30Mb - for a clip that's less than 30 seconds long. Even cut down to 11Mb, I can see quality loss. So this requires more problem solving.

The hours spent butting heads with the statsfile problem weren't completely wasted, as I figured out the easy means to adjust the volumes of the soundtrack on the video, voice-over and background music.
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Old Nov 9, 2005, 3:28 AM   #10
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Are you sure you're using Xvid video stream compression? 30MB for 30 seconds, that's 8Mbps, it just doesn't make any sense for Xvid compression to produce such a large file. When you play the resulting .AVI file,do the fileproperties details say it's Xvid video and the bit rate?

Xvid can do great quality in little space. Check out this Xvid videoI just made, it'ssingle-pass 640x480 @ 30fps for 7 seconds, no soundbut it's only a 288KB .AVI file!To download it right-click this and save target as. If you wanta real world video sample encoded with Xvid, here's a four second clip (I realize you're on dial-up) widescreen video from TV last night with full 128Kbps mp3 stereo sound.
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