Steve's Digicams Forums

Steve's Digicams Forums (https://forums.steves-digicams.com/)
-   Kodak (https://forums.steves-digicams.com/kodak-24/)
-   -   Why Kodak? (https://forums.steves-digicams.com/kodak-24/why-kodak-113440/)

gregm1948 Feb 2, 2007 2:57 PM

This being the Kodak section of the forums, I'd have to guess that most participants here shoot with a Kodak digital of one type or another. I'm curious as to why others chose Kodak from among the bevy of digital cameras out there. Check off the most important factor in the poll, or scribble out your reasons in a reply.

My own story started with the Olympus camera I had at Disneyworld which took a plunge into a pond. I was with my grandchildren and didn't want to miss any photo-ops, so I found the Kodak Center on the grounds. I originally thought to get the cheapest one they had, but when I checked the V550, I was quite impressed. The clincher was the Schneider lens! For me, all the megapixels in the world don't count if you don't have a decent lens. After using it for a year, I wanted to get deeper into digital photography, so I set up my criteria for a more advanced camera. I love the digital SLR's, but for a hobbyist, they're out of my price range. I wanted a good lens with the widest angle zoom, and for off-camera and multiple flash use, the camera had to have the old-fashioned PC outlet. While Canon, Nikon and Sony were contenders, the Kodak P880 was the one camera that met my needs. And it cost less than the others to boot.

The P880 doesn't have the 12x zoom most of the others had, but with it's 24mm equivalent lens by Schneider, it has me covered there. I've already begun using the PC outlet in setting up multiple-flash shots for portraits. The P880 is not good at all for action sports due to the lag time between pushing shutter button and image capture, but then I wonder how any digital in this price range would be at that. Some of the others had higher megapixel counts, but 8.1 gives me plenty of image quality for my purposes. One other quibble: I wish they had a way to defeat the preflash from the built in strobe so that some of my slave units don't trigger early. Oh, well, I have to work around that.

So, enough blabbering on my part. To paraphrase the commercial, "What's in your camera bag?" and why did you chose it?

Greg

mtclimber Feb 2, 2007 4:01 PM

Greg-

Perhaps I can help. I conduct beginner and intermediate workshops all over the world on cruise ships, speaking to over 7,500 persons every year. One of the first things I do is to establish what cameras my audience has, so I can foucus the lectures more toward their particular needs.

Three years ago, only about 20% of the attendees used Kodak cameras. This year that percentage has changed radically. Now almost 40% of the attendees, particularly in the beginner's workshops, use a Kodak camera. This clearly shows that Kodak made the correct decision when they opted, some 30 months ago,to really focus on the digital camera market.

My audiences perceive the Kodak cameras as (1) easy to use (2) competent (3) a good value. If you look at the Kodak range of cameras, they have a camera for everyone in the point and shoot population. Kodak has a great deal of variety in cameras, and they have positioned their cameras in the best marketing channels for their users. Kodak has focused not only on the mass merchandizers like, Walmart, Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, and K-Mart, but also in Walgreen's and even your local drug store. With that kind of market penetration, the camera stores have to carry Kodak because that is what folks are asking for every day in their stores.

Kodak is one of the very best "come back" stories in marketing. Three and four years ago they were "an also ran" most notable for their uninteresting and somewhat unrteliable digital cameras. Today all that has been changed.

MT/Sarah

bigdawg Feb 2, 2007 11:58 PM

I can only select one so I chose the lens. I was almost going to buy a cannon camera when I noticed that Wal-Mart had the DX6490 at a very reduced price as the DX7590 was just being released. I liked the 10X Zoom and the price more than anything, but have come to realise that the DX6490 can still hold it's own with much newer and fancier cameras. For the Extra Bells and Whistles I''ll go DSLR in a couple of months! But the DX 6490 will get it's share of use as well. No retirement till it quits!

Dawg

jpfromoh Feb 3, 2007 5:19 AM

Kodak COLORS and relative ease of use.......in the process of getting P880 to replace/supplement my P850.



John.....

bigdawg Feb 3, 2007 8:30 AM

John...you're everywhere!! LOL

Dawg

gregm1948 Feb 3, 2007 9:02 AM

Hi, John,

Just curious as to why you want to add the 880 to supplement your 850. What features are you looking to get?

Greg

mtclimber Feb 3, 2007 9:09 AM

Greg-

I did the same thing as John. I use the P-850 for the longer telephoto shots and the P-880 for those wonderful wide angle shots. In that way they each compliment each other. Of course, in the middle of the focal length range they do share some common ground.

MT/Sarah

gregm1948 Feb 3, 2007 11:03 AM

Sarah,

Been thinking along the same lines. I do like the w/a of the 880, but it doesn't give the tele range I'd find useful, especially for sports. Of course, the 880 doesn't do well for indoor sports , ie, basketball, because of long lag time. I'd guess the 850 would not do much better there either.

Which brings me to the question, do I have to go up to a DSLR to get significantly less lag between shutter release and image capture? I see on Kodak's website there's a P712 now, which they claim has the shortest lag time in the class - .07 sec, plus a 12x zoom (36-432 equiv). But they list that time "wide, preview on", which makes me wonder if 'real world' times are not as good. The old "Your mileage may vary" disclaimer applies, I guess.

Greg

jpfromoh Feb 3, 2007 11:45 AM

bigdawg wrote:
Quote:

John...you're everywhere!! LOL

Dawg
Dawg so are you:-)

Actually, my mind is a "sponge" trying to soak up as much learning as I can...multiple forums help me accomplish this.



Regards, John...

jpfromoh Feb 3, 2007 11:48 AM

gregm1948 wrote:
Quote:

Hi, John,

Just curious as to why you want to add the 880 to supplement your 850. What features are you looking to get?

Greg
Greg, Sarah gave one point-of-view for both....right now I am not sure if I will keep P850 when I get the P880.....time will tell.....I like the wide angle and image quality of the 880...with the P850 I do not find myself taking a lot of full zoom photos but I may miss it when I need it....the downside to keeping both is having to lug them around....

John

dr_spock Feb 3, 2007 4:23 PM

I voted for price. I have a C310 and a DX3215. EasyShare is pretty easy to use too.


flippedgazelle Feb 3, 2007 6:07 PM

Like bigdawg, I voted for lens. I am impressed with the sharpness of the Kodak C875's photos. I also wanted to experience "Kodak Color". Finally, I really like the fact that I bought with C875 for $126 after a price-match and rebate, and got a free 512mb sd card in the bargain.

mtclimber Feb 3, 2007 7:20 PM

Chris-

You got a great deal, Chris.

MT/Sarah

inneyeseakay Feb 4, 2007 6:00 AM

I boughtall three ofmy Kodak's (CX7530, P850, P880)due to price and features, but more so price. When I bought the CX7530, I knew nothing about photography... much the same when I bought the P850... I just wanted me zoom. After buying the P850, I started to get into the photography game and quickly learned everything I could, I upgraded to the P880 for the wide angle, resolution, pc sync and becauseit was as close as I could get to a dSLR with the price range I had in mind. I loved all my cameras, but as I learned more, ran into more challenging shooting situations, and bought a Canon ELAN (35mmSLR)I started to long for a dSLR so I posted my P880 and accessories for sale, hoping to get me what I needed to buy a dSLR. After the for sale ad was up for about 3 weeks, a guy called and talked to me about the camera for about 30 minutes and then said he would think about it. He asked why I was selling it and I informed him that the time had come to upgrade and he told me that he had recently bought a Pentax istDL, but it was much too advanced for him. I discussed photography a little while and he told me he would see what he could do and get back to me. When I got home that night I had an email asking if I would like to trade my p880 for his istDL. Of course I took the trade and the LBA began. I am now a proud owner of two Pentax digital SLR's and a rather wide collection of lenses, but just recently gave my brother my old trusty CX7530.

If it weren't for that guy offering me to trade, I would probably still be shooting Kodak, but for the price, the customer support and the fact that I never had a problem with them... Kodaks are hard to beat.

FaciaBrut Feb 4, 2007 6:32 AM

When I bought the P850 the decison was based on Raw format capability so my vote was for Features. I wanted a very flexible budget priced camera I could slam around while I practiced my little niche of real estate digital photography and post processing. I just wish it had been sharper. My co-worker recently bought a Sony DSC-H2 and the pictures it produces simply blow away anything coming out of the P850. But it doesn't support Raw.

mtclimber Feb 4, 2007 10:31 AM

FB-

You are so correct. Shooting RAW is one of the areas in which DSLR cameras have really come into their own. By shooting RAW and using a software program like Adobe's Lightroom, you can essentially "re-take" the photo all over again, by using your computer skills, and that, FB, is an area where you are a real expert.

MT/Sarah

Diggy415 Feb 4, 2007 1:06 PM

I have the z650 and im trying to get fine detail out of it but it always gives me this red light flashing even as a part way hit the shutter button, i thought it would be easier than this seeing how alot of the features repeat them selves.( night time, close up) could be me too and what im trying to capture. I don't like the slow turn on and the fact i can't shoot one after another. Should of done more research in Kodak before i bought this 200.00 P.O.C.





mtclimber Feb 4, 2007 3:38 PM

diggy-

The Kodak Z650 is a good camera and quite capable. No, it does not have some of the features found on more expensive cameras, but it does offer a great deal of value and features.

Is there something we can specifically help you with in your photos? We have a good deal of talent in this forum and perhaps we can help you.

MT/Sarah

Diggy415 Feb 4, 2007 3:47 PM

Yes there is. I want top be able to perfect one situation at a time. For now i am trying to perfect the close up shots. I don't know how small of a subject the camera can shoot, but i was trying to get the right settings for the snail egg sacks, since the eggs are white at a certain time, i am looking to bring them out with more detail than i have been able to get. What other subject,small,. is a good thing to start with? An ant? Whats the best setting for this type of small detail work?



scrappynik Feb 4, 2007 9:52 PM

I voted for features since there's more than one reason I prefer Kodaks. The P850 is actually my 4th Kodak digital camera. I still have (and use) my DX7630. The other two were sold long ago. :-)

bigdawg Feb 4, 2007 11:17 PM

If you are wanting the best detail you need to have a tripod or at leasst some way to keep the camera rock steady! Also you need to use the Macro mode on your camera and at least use the P mode in pasm...I actually like the A mode and sometimes the M or manual mode! The settings will differ according to the light source you have available and the amount of DOF you wish. If you have good light then have the light source comming over one shoulder to avoid casting a shadow and also not being directly in front and causing over exposures or having something behind the subject cast a shadow on the subject! I also use the timer to make sure that even my pressure and release of the shutter doesn't cause the camera to move. Use spto focus and center wieghted exposure with an ISO of 100 or lower! With ample light set the camera to p mode and bracket the shot with the exposure compensation. If the first shot is too dark raise the Exposure compensation to the plus side by one stop at a time until you achieve the exposure you want! Move the camera in and out instead of zooming in and out, unless the subject cannot be approached that way. Then and only then use the zoom. Also if it is too hard to get the light source in the right place ( say it is going to be behind you ) then back away and use the zoom here.

Above all do things in steps. Try one and if it doesn't work try something else. I nor anyone else can give you diffinitive settings for your shots as the available light will change from place to place and even moment to moment! Try this in program mode and then in A mode and then in S mode and then in M mode! Macros can be done in all modes includuing Auto! It is just easier in P mode where you have more control and can change things like the ISO! I hope some of this helps...One of these days I wish Kodak would furnish better info for those buying a camera. But in the meantime we will try to help! More Questions? Ask away and some ofd us will try to help. Sarah is well qualified to do this as she does it for a living!

Dawg

bayani Feb 5, 2007 2:14 AM

gregm1948 wrote:
Quote:

Sarah,

Which brings me to the question, do I have to go up to a DSLR to get significantly less lag between shutter release and image capture? I see on Kodak's website there's a P712 now, which they claim has the shortest lag time in the class - .07 sec, plus a 12x zoom (36-432 equiv).
Greg
Greg,

I can't speak for the P712. But I have the Z612 (12X Zoom, video, Schneider lens).


The lag times between shots is amazingly short. You can shoot practically as fast as you can depress the shutter, even on flash shots! (Many PnS cameras suffer in this area, specially with long shot-to-shot times for flash. Not the Z612 of Kodak.)

There is also the burst mode which can take, in one mode, eight shots continously and captures the pictures in vivid color outdoors.

Gary

gregm1948 Feb 5, 2007 8:26 AM

Gary,

I'd guess the 712 is an upgrade to the 612, so it does sound like it would give me the quick response I'd want in sports shooting. The price on the P712 at the moment is around $390, but that's still a whole lot cheaper than a DSLR($600-700+). I still would consider a DSLR if the prices drop some more. The Nikon D50 seems like a real contender, but I've heard good things about the Sony a100 too.

Thanks for the input.

Gre

ac.smith Feb 5, 2007 11:24 AM

As a part of our tools my work group has been involved with digital cameras since the only consumer cameras were 320x240 B/W. We started using Kodak color digitals as they became available because of both availability and price/performance ratio. We only use point/shoot cameras because our field people are not supposed to be pro photogs and the images they create are intended for the computer screen, not prints. As Kodak increased capabilities we purchased additional cameras. It became apparent that that we needed weather proof (dustproof!!!/water resistant) cameras about the same time Kodak released the weatherproof DC5000. We purchased about 40 and I like it so well that I purchased a refurbished model for myself. That camera has served me well for the past five years and continues to function as well as it did when I first received the camera. Although it is only 2 Mpix I can make top notch 8x10 prints if I do what I'm supposed to as a photographer. We still have about 30 in use and have had only two failures, both due to outright physical abuse. When there was a safety recall on that camera Kodak set up an extremely good repair system (about a 3 day turn around) and covered all shipping costs both ways.

Next time we needed weatherproof cameras Kodak had ceased production on the the DC5000 and had no replacement. At that same time Olympus released the first of its weatherproof Stylus series and we purchased about 40 Stylus 300s. They have met our dustproof requirements and had at least equal daylight image quality. Unfortunately much of our photo requirements involve flash and the color balance on all the Styluses we have (about 270, 300s,400s,410s,500s and 600s) and they all have a blue cast on flash pictures.

We will continue to use Olympus Stylus series camera at work because our dustproof requirement is a must and because we have support parts on hand (memory cards/readers and batteries.) However when I personally wanted a camera with a 12x zoom and optical image stabilization I looked again to Kodak (avoided Olypus because of my experience with blue flash) and have wanted a P850 since it was introduced. When it came time to actually buy a camera the 850 was being phased out. The two Kodaks that met my requirement are the Z612 and the P712. Read Steve's reviews and purchase a Z612 from Kodaks refurbish program. Only had the camera a month (about a 120 pictures testing) and I am very satisfied. I feel the Z612 offered a very good price/performance ratio compared to the other 12x IS cameras on the market right now. May end up buying another Z612 for my wife.

gregm1948 Feb 5, 2007 12:12 PM

Thanks, ac. Your experience does confirm what most of us know about our Kodak's: great value/performance/most bang-for-buck.

I did check out your Z612. It has the same click-to-capture time - .3 sec - as my P880. The P712 seems to be the replacement for the P850 and it has the shortest click-to-capture time that I've been able to find in this class of camera. I am in no rush to purchase a new camera at the moment, so my research will continue.

Greg

ac.smith Feb 5, 2007 2:57 PM

Both Steve's review and at least one other suggested that the P712 images were not as sharp as the Z612 images. My wile likes the feel of the Z612 and offered that I could upgrade to a P712 and give her the 612. I don't really want to do that as I already have spare batteries for the 612 and the 712 uses different batteries, besides the image quality issue. I offered to buy her a 612 also which she is thinking about. I'm going to try to get her to actually use the 612 over the next few week to see if I can push her that way as then we can share accessories.

The P712 shares the external flash features as your P880 if you need that feature. I think it would probably be easier to sync slave strobes predictably with either of those two compared to my Z612 but I can do it.

I have a couple of birds in motion pictures from my test shotsthat illustrate shutter response time. Will try to upload if I can find time. One feature that got in my way was that it freezes the viewfinder for review of the last shot by default which prevented fast repeat shots. I've now switched the feature off.

gregm1948 Feb 5, 2007 4:36 PM

I wonder if the image-quality issue has anything to do with the image stabilization of the P712. I'll keep on researching this.

Greg

ac.smith Feb 5, 2007 10:28 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Greg,

I wouldn't think so since both cameras have optical IS. Here are four moving target shots on a very dull gray winter afternoon. Settings - ISO 80, normal auto focus/exposure, IS/focus continuous, hand held, maximum telephoto (420mm equiv.) The original exif data should be on the pictures.

These are just test shots to start to give me a feel for how the camera handles.

ac.smith Feb 5, 2007 10:32 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Second shot

ac.smith Feb 5, 2007 10:33 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Third shot

ac.smith Feb 5, 2007 10:35 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Almost looks like air traffic controller required :roll:

bayani Feb 6, 2007 3:04 AM

ac.smith wrote:
Quote:

Both Steve's review and at least one other suggested that the P712 images were not as sharp as the Z612 images. My wile likes the feel of the Z612 and offered that I could upgrade to a P712 and give her the 612. I don't really want to do that as I already have spare batteries for the 612 and the 712 uses different batteries, besides the image quality issue. I offered to buy her a 612 also which she is thinking about. I'm going to try to get her to actually use the 612 over the next few week to see if I can push her that way as then we can share accessories.

Quote:

Here is a sample of a Z612 picture taken on its Macro setting:
Quote:

Gary

Big Bad John Mar 2, 2007 10:01 AM

For me it was the Kodak reputation of image quality with regard to the P880 (and other models as well). I've been scouring forums for over a year now and finally settled on the P880 due to the 24mm WA lens and the fantastic color reproduction. When I started my research for my upgrade, Kodak wasn't even on my radar screen. When I saw the possibilities of shooting WA, it was kind of like the difference between watching a movie at a regular theater or an IMAX theater. BIG DIFFERENCE. If my math is correct, going from 28mm to 24mm gets about 15% more viewable area at the edges of the frame. BIG DIFFERENCE. As far as quality is concerned, I personally believe that the P880 delivers as well as many entry to mid-level DSLR's when the ink hits the paper...when it really matters. Also, 8MP will allow some larger prints and with the 1.4X Kodak Tcon and the 3.0X Tokina Tcon I can get all the zoom I need. I'm also ordering the P20 flash unit and a good TRIPOD.

On the various internet forums that I've visited over the last year, many have complained about their Brand X, Y, or Z camera that has trouble focusing in low light...at the long end of the zoom...with a subject in motion...when shooting hand-held! GEEZ LOUISE! GET A TRIPOD! Sorry to rant on that point, but what camera (especially P and S digitals) can do that well? I just don't see the big aversion to taking along a tripod.

My first (and only) digital cam was a Nikon CoolPix 7600, a horrid little camera by most accounts. But, after taking time to learn the camera, make changes where necessary like using high capacity NiMH batteries and using high speed SD cards, the performance improved dramatically. I've gotten some really good night shots of our oilfield locations in south MS with this wretched little thing...when using the approriate camera settings and shooting from a tripod. Did I consider lugging a tripod around to be inconvenient? Not considering the results I got!

My new P880 should be here next week. Hope to be able to post some pics once I've gotten comfortable with it. I'm really looking forward to this new camera. Good Shooting to All! BBJ


bigdawg Mar 2, 2007 1:51 PM

Be looking forward to some of those photos John! A tripod is almost a neccessity with some shots no matter the camera you might have. Just works better. As far as them being a problem carrying around ... mine weighs about 2 lbs, and for me is well worth the tote! LOL When I don't take it I'm always kicking myself in the Butt for not having it. LOL

Dawg


Flying Fossil Mar 2, 2007 9:58 PM

I got re started in photography with and Olympus c60 which was a pretty nice little camera but the manual was useless and the website customer support was even worse.
After a few months of frustration trying to learn the camera with no much useful information, I opted for a Kodak DX7590. Marvelous camera for the money. Good lense, good picture quality, very user friendly onboard features and a good manual that made sense to me. Also the Koday web site and there support team are among the best in my experience.
With two Grandaughters in soccer and basketball, I wanted more zoom, and faster response time. I opted up to the P712 which I still have and truly enjoy. It makes taking pictures fun, easy, and reliable. It's biggest short coming is indoors low light situations, but with a hot shot, some of that can be taken care of.
Overall, the P712 is hard to beat for the price.


wolfgangw Mar 8, 2007 1:10 PM

Dear Kodak Users,

I recently bought a Kodak P880. The main reason was the Lens. The wide angle Schneider Kreuznach lens is wonderfull and there is only one competing Model out there (Sony) wich is also a very nice Camera. I thought of buying a DSLR but then only the lens would cost 3 times the price of the Kodak. Surely it would be a better tool but then photography is just a hobby of me. The Kodak is also easy to use. I think there is no other manufacturer wich has that Combination of fool proof Cameras AND Software.

Greetings from Mannheim/Germany

Wolfgang Wolters

Atindra Apr 3, 2007 5:43 PM

I bought Kodak DX6490 digital camera (which is my first DC). Its an awesome camera. I bought Kodak for its colors, features and price. I dont like to get carried away with marketing hypes and I do my own research before buying any product. I trust my eyes and candid user opinions more than any reviews. I compared lots of images those days with Kodak DX6490 before buying it and found out Kodak had best appealing colors. Images stand out nicely. I bought Kodak. I am101% satisfied and happy camper. After that I bought a samsung pocket camera (which I dont like much and still cursing my self for not going for Kodak C875).

I was planning to upgrade to Kodak P880 but in the urge of upgrading again in future I took DSLR route. I bouth Pentax K100d. Had Kodak been producing dslrs I still could have stuck with them. I recommended many of my friends Kodak cams. Many times I feel pity about them as they are blinded by market hype and go after famous brands without checking picture quality.

Atindra

bayani Apr 3, 2007 8:55 PM

Atindra wrote:
Quote:

I bought Kodak DX6490 digital camera (which is my first DC). Its an awesome camera. I bought Kodak for its colors, features and price. I dont like to get carried away with marketing hypes and I do my own research before buying any product.
Atindra
When I was shopping for a new digital cam, I was at first doubtful about a Kodak. The Canons and Sonys and Olympuses were the first choices to check out.

Kodak's not really known for cameras.

But I was pleasantly surprised that there are many good reviews of Kodak cameras and I finally settled on on.

Gary


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 5:18 PM.