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Old Feb 5, 2005, 11:13 AM   #1
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Hello all,

I'm a newbie who would greatly appreciate it if anyone can give me some advice whether it is worth purchasing the Kodak DX7590 model, especially now that price has come down. I've read numerous opinions on this model, both amateur and professional, and the common complaints seem torevolve around strong JPEG compression (is it that bad?), slow shutter speed between shots, lack of image stabilizer and autofocus. Despite the few negatives, I'm still willing to take a chance on this camera.Regarding the last two issues, if I don't use the full 10X zoom, say, only up to 8X, will images tend to come out less blurry andmore crisp and clear? What about the autofocus issue? Now that Kodak finally has addressed this problem, did it really solve the problem for those of you that own this model?

I'm actually torn betweenthe Kodak DX7590 camera and the Canon S1 IScamera. The BIG plus if I wastopurchase the Canon is the built in image stabilizer (why couldn't Kodak implement this feature in theircamera too? Would've been nice). Then again, the priceof the Canon hasn't dropped that much (camera is a year old now, has less megapixelsand is still selling for around $350-$399), thus I'm leaningmore towards the Kodak camera (higher level of megapixels, more new).

Thank you.BTW, this is a great forum. I definitely could learn a lot frommany of you on how to take great pictures.
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Old Feb 5, 2005, 11:46 AM   #2
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I purchased the 7590 a few months ago, and I havn't found any of those complaints to be a concern for me. I havn't noticed the compression to be a limiting factor at all, and the cammera is actually really quick between shots. There is a feature that auto displays the shot you have just take for 5 seconds, perhaps that is why the review said it was slow, however you can turn that off, or, skip it by pressing the shutter button quickly and its ready to shoot again.

As for lack of autofocus and image stabilization. It deffinitly does have autofocus, not sure how the reviewer missed that, because it dosn't have manual focus its all auto; and lack of image stabilazation hasn't effected my shots at all, you can just increase the apature and decrease the shutter speed to get a quick shot with good exposure.

Not sure if the cannon has a pc connector for an external flash, but that is a great feature of the 7590 that you didn't mention, deffinitly worth considering.

Good luck with your decision, hope this helps.

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Old Feb 5, 2005, 12:22 PM   #3
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Thanks! In regard to the autofocus issue I mentioned, I guess I forgot to throw in this caveat: the major complaints I've heard stems from poor lighting inindoor shot situations, where the camera seem to struggle to find a proper focus zone. But since Kodak has a firmware update for this model now, I suppose all is fine and well.

I'll probably go with the Kodak over the Canon. Sounds like a winner to me. The 5 megapixel is hard to pass up by. I just wish, though, Kodak offers a simple lithium battery charger; it just sounds a bit like a nuisance to have to carry the dock with you when traveling.
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Old Feb 5, 2005, 12:54 PM   #4
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Actually there is a simple charger. It came with my cammera in Canada, I think you can buy it in the states as an accesory for $20 or somthing like that, plus spare batteries are only 20-30, you will need one of those, even though the battery life is phenominal you never know where your going to be when it dies.
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Old Feb 5, 2005, 1:24 PM   #5
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Well i have the DX6490,,like it a lot,,,really takes nice pics,,,if you shoot the 7590 in fine mode compression is not an issue,,,,the only thing negative about kodak is their noise reduction is very aggressive,,and if you are not using a magnifying glass you won`t notice any problems,,and kodak color is great too....the 7590 has faster click to capture than the S1,scene modes are nice,easy to use too...

Now as for the S1 IS i`m getting one as my second camera,,i want it for a few reasons,,,IS is one of them,flip LCD ,you can get a remote control (MY BIGGEST COMPLAINT FOR KODAK),,,lot of other things on the Canon that the kodak does not have,,but if i was only to have one camera,,kodak would be the one....

As for pricing,,,,you are off quite a bit,,,the S1 IS is selling online at at least 2 stores that have great reputations for 306 U.S.,,which is significantly better than the 7590,,,and it should be too though,,the 7590 has more pixels and is newer...

IS i feel under most circumstances is not needed,,,but under dim lighting you can get sharp pictures at 3 stops slower than without it,,,i wouldn`t buy a camera just because IS is on it,,,but it is definately something worth having,,all the reviewers praise the canon for this,,,Kodak is going to have to put this on it`s next camera,,,,if they want to keep up in the 10x plus zoom race,,or they`ll be left behind..

Either camera is a good buy,,

Brian

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Old Feb 5, 2005, 5:49 PM   #6
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Thanks for the replies. If you don't mind, I do have few more questions for you Brian. First, what do you mean when you say the ISO reduction is a bit aggressive in the Kodak camera? Does it mean the pics will tend to look a bit over exaggerated in terms of color and sharpness? Also, what is the significance of having a remote control for a digital camera? Well, I tested out the DX7590 model at a local electronic store and for the most part was quite pleased with its performance.This is a probably stupid question, but I'll ask anyway,is the digital image stabilizer reliable?The few drawbacks in my test shoots included the following: pictures in the lcd screen tended to look a bit off (for instance, the color red didn't quite look as "normal" like the actual color I was seeing; pics looked a bit fuzzy andgrainy in the lcd screen). Another thing I took notice was that after viewing each pics and later deleting them, the camera was somewhat slow torespond indeleting them completely.

As for the Canon, man, you are making it now difficult for me to choose the Kodak. I know the IS is a big plus, but then again, if you take advantage of the full zoom, don't you lose a lot of megapixels considering the S1 only has 3.2 megapixels or is this pretty much true for any ultra zoom cameras in the 3mp -5mp class? And like I said before, I really expect touse maybe 8X zoom, at the most, to hopefully prevent blurry shots. Pricewise, the Canon sound like an unbeatable deal.


I'm a novice user, not a pro like you (great inputs and advicesin this forum- you definitely know what you're talking about) and others in this forum, so if you were to pick the "right" camera for me, which one would you go with? I will tell you right now that I actually prefer just viewing them on my pc screen. If and when I do want to print my photos, very seldom will I select an 8 X 11 size.


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Old Feb 5, 2005, 8:28 PM   #7
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Well for one i said the NOISE REDUCTION is too aggressive,,and that can make the pics look fudgey,smeared,unsharp,sometimes it`s really blotchy in pics such as people with lots of hair (very fine detail),,,but this is not usually noticed unless,like i said,,you look really closely at some pics,,,most will not show enough to be noticed..personally unless you are a real critic,,don`t worry about it,,,most people only view the pics at 800x600 or whatever your screen resolution is,,or print at 4x6 or 8x10....you will be pleased for sure at this resolution...you have to get a DSLR to get really good resolution,,,as the point +shoot cameras sensors are so small that all brands will show some sort of defects,,,unless you are making money off the pics (then you should have a DSLR),,,you need to learn to sit back and enjoy these cameras,,,they do a great job for the money,,,and kodak is getting to be a leader in quality for the buck.....

As for a remote control,,i take a lot of wildlife shots,,,up close and personal,,even with the TCON17 attached and getting in at 646mm on my DX6490 at full optical,,,a lot of birds will not stay arround if they see you close to their fav feeding spot...a remote control would allow me to hide easier and keep the camera up close to them,,and not spook the animals...it also can be used for operations when hooked to a TV for movie viewing...

Yes the image stabilizer is reliable to it`s limit,,,meaning it will remove your hand shake and allow you to take sharp pics at two or three f stops lower than without it,,,but,,it`s not digital,,it`s not added on after taking the shot,,it`s part of the lense construction....IS in this camera (probably all other brands the same in general)anyway is a part of the rear of the lense,,when the image moves the image stabilizer module moves too,,,to counter act that movement and keep the image still and sharp...it is an expensive addition to any camera,,,and probably why kodak does not use it,,,it`s not absolutely neccesary,and drives the price up and profit down,,you can learn to hold a camera and in most cases do very well without it....

Here`s a movie with the S1 with the IS off..

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/S1IS/ZISOFF.AVI



Here`s one with the IS turned on,,,both are moving arround a lot,,,but the IS one is noticably better,,,,and you would never have that much hand shake when taking pics,,,,this was over exagerated to show how it smooths things out....

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/S1IS/ZISON.AVI



You can`t judge image quality by the LCD screen on any camera,,,they are not as good as your PC monitor,,,and your monitor is no prize either,,,if you want to see how a camera specs out,,,,go to one of the reviewers,,such as Steeves here,,,download a pic from that camera and get it photo published at a decent photo retailer....that is the only fair,accurate way to tell image quality..ecspecially when it comes to colors,,,and also these cameras have settings for high saturated color,neutral color,etc....so you would have to try all the color settings too..

All these point and shoot cameras are no speed demons at erasing pics off the memory or the card,,,,and who really cares anyway..you are not going to take pics,,,need to erase them quickly andtake pics again,,,if you do,,,then just buy a larger memory card,,,and erase at your convenience..

What the??????? loose pixels....doesn`t matter how much you zoom in optical zoom,,,the camera still uses all available pixels,,,3 or 5,,still uses all the pixels unless you choose a low resolution setting in the menu,,,,and can`t see why you would dothat......if you are referring to digital zoom,,,then maybe,,,,but,,,never,ever,even for a second,use digital zoom....the camera manufacturers are using this as a selling tool,,,and a stupid one at that,,,if you hit the end of optical zoom and still want more,,,buy an add-on lense,,,walk closer,,,or crop-enlarge in PSE 3.0 or other editing suites,,,they do a FAR better job at this than any DIGITAL ZOOM...

As for only using 8x zoom,,,,yeah sure,,,you get one of these and tell me that later,,,,you`ll have it pegged at 380mm or 38mm,,,and rarely see the numbers in between them,,,when you get out you will want every bit you can get in that lense to get you close to action shots,wildlife,etc....and they would be just as blurry at 8x as they would at 10x,,,unless you can hold the camera right,use a tripod,,,or go into PASM modes and drive the shutter speed up,,,this is all in the learning curve,,,and you can do it,,,but not overnight...that`s the fun partthough,,learning,,,and reading messages like this that are 10 pages long (HOLY SNAPPING THIS IS GETTING LONG),LOL

If you are a novice,,,go with the DX6490 if price is a concern,,it`s a great camera too,,,and the 1 megapixel it`s missing over it`s sister the DX7590 is not a concern,,,you won`t use it unless you want to crop your pics heavily....

If price isn`t,,,get the DX7590,,,these are user friendly cameras,,,,take wonderfull pictures,,,and since the menus are easy to use they are a perfect learning tool too when you want to advance yourself to full manual mode or anything in between,,these are both very capable OF BEING MANUAL OPERATION CAMERAS,,,EXCEPT FOR NOT HAVING MANUAL FOCUS...

The Canon`s menu system though fine for advanced people is very hard for beginners to use,,,and will make you pull your hair out...but,,,it does have a host of features i want,,,manual focus,remote control,IS,flip screen,and other things....

Now my arm is sore from typing,,,and i`ve got to go to therapy,,lol

Brian






















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Old Feb 6, 2005, 10:45 AM   #8
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Hey Brian,

Thanks again!Iguess I will go ahead and just purchase the DX7590. From all the different reviews I've read online, the DX series (6490/7590) received mostly positivefeedbacks, though must say one of the professional reviewers gave the DX7590 ascore of 7.2 out of 10; the Canon S1 IS receiving a better score of 7.6 out of 10. The DX received a lower score because, as you pointed out, mainly because of the aggressive noise level.

Quickly, in regard to the zoom issue, well, that is what I was told by one of the sales reps, who said if you don't use the full 10X zoom you should be able to take more clear and crisp shots. I just need to test it out myself more once I receive the camera and learn to master it (I know, a loooot easier said than done).

I'm really glad I found this forum. I hope you as well as others in this forumwon't mind me asking for more advices later on.
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Old Feb 6, 2005, 1:15 PM   #9
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For one,,i`ve yet to see a sales rep that could actually talk intelligently about a cameras operation,,,they usually only know what it says on the box,,if even that....

The less you zoom the more stable the image will be for certain,,,but the diff between 8x and 10x is not enough to help that any...when you get the camera and use it in bright outdoor settings the shutter speeds should be high enough to not cause you any problems,,,as the light diminishes though you`ll have to go into "P" mode and up the ISO (film speed) to 100 or 200 to drive the shutter speed up,,,this will help you some till you learn more,,,just get it,,,and if you need help,,,just ask....



Brian
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Old Feb 6, 2005, 10:35 PM   #10
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mblue1 wrote:
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Quickly, in regard to the zoom issue, well, that is what I was told by one of the sales reps, who said if you don't use the full 10X zoom you should be able to take more clear and crisp shots. I just need to test it out myself more once I receive the camera and learn to master it (I know, a loooot easier said than done).

I'm really glad I found this forum. I hope you as well as others in this forumwon't mind me asking for more advices later on.
1. Ask away. You'd be surprised how many people are out there with your exact question on their minds... and how many more have an answer. This forum is a gold mine of helpful photographers.

2. As regards sharpness with zoom. There is aformula, which, in its simplest terms defines the minimum hand-held shutter speed as 1/n where n isany given focal length. If you are using the 7590 atmaximum zoom you have35mm equivalent of 380mm. This would mean the minimum hand-held speed for that zoom would be 1/380 sec. (note: I suppose this presumes a ceratin f-stop value, but I don't know which. I have yet to see a mathematical reference chart for this formula which would account for aperture or ISO setting.)

Regards,

Tom, on Point Pelee, Canada
http://www.darwinonline.org/index.php?cat=11078
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