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Old Aug 2, 2005, 11:09 PM   #31
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No doubt about it Paul, the 24mm wide end is a winner, no arguments re focal length of the P880, just a bit sad they didnt go all the way and hit us with a DSLR at a sensible price.

I would rather use say an EOS350 with a 28-135 eq lens, just as easy to handle with the added bonus of a real viewfinder and real Program Flash.

Good luck to the many folks that will buy these new camera, its just not my cuppa tea.

Reason being as you know I believe DSLRs have been overpriced, to me my Kodak Digitals have been great little tools to help me get to know the ins and outs of using Photoshop, understanding the pitfalls of digital and not having to spend a fortune, I will hang on to my DX7590s for at least another year, by then DSLRs will be selling for what they are realy worth and I will get whatever Canon have for sale at that time, it will be compatible with my 35mm gear.

Dave
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Old Aug 3, 2005, 12:55 AM   #32
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Your forgiven Paul for not useing Limey green in the beginning of this Thread. Truth be known I didn't even notice because I was too excited about the camera's. I've really been thinking it over and believe the P880 is the one right now to buy. There are just too many good features included. I'd love it if Kodak had done the same with the P850 and had all the features of the P880 to go with the zoom of the P850. Just have to wait awhile and hope they come to their senses. I like the advantage of having all the lens you need already on the camera. Really cuts down on the photo kit required to travel and take decent shots. Truth be known most of my photo's have been 10x or less. Would love to have image stabilization but I can be pretty steady hand held If I don't have a hangover and the subject isn't bouncing in the waves! LOL The 12x and IS would be just that much better if it had the other features. Love the Idea of the " hybrid auto-focus" as there are times you might want things just off focus or in low light conditions it will allow you to bracket the focus as well as the f-stop and shutter speed. ISO 50 and a really fast shutter speed and I imagine a long timed shutter are all there. Geez the P880 would be nice if it only had at least 10x zoom!!!!Well as I said the P880 would be the one to buy right now and I'd hang on to the 6490 for the zoom! Not putting them down at all But for Christ sake why can't we have both?? DSLR?? Not ever again I'm afraid. Really for me they include just too many hassels, and too much cash. I'll probably wait a year and get the P880 at a lower cost, unless in the meantime Kodak comes out with the one I really want. P880 features and 20X zoom. And by the way you missed answering the one question I really wanted to know. Does it have a faster processor and shortened pic to pic time span???


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Old Aug 3, 2005, 2:28 AM   #33
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Thanks for the info Paul. I was about to jump into an upgrade for my CX7530. I was thinking of a Z730 or a Z7590, but now I will just have to wait and see. Mr Blue is excited too!!!!!!!!.
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Old Aug 3, 2005, 6:17 AM   #34
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8mp raw files from a camera with that small of a sensor is not worth the hassle of spending all that time on the computer,,,and still having too much noise at high ISO.just not worth it for me i guess....the 5 meg 12x might be.....who knows..

Brian
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Old Aug 3, 2005, 7:46 AM   #35
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brianhare wrote:
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Time will tell,,if it`s a nice camera,,or not,,,,,but the Schneider 1.4 tele add-on is giving me an itchy wallet.......

Brian
Brian, you do know that the Kodak lenses are the same as the Olympus range.
There's the x0.7 Kodak lens and the WCON-07, they are as good as identical (slightly different coating).

The new Kodak x1.7 will look very familiar to you.

The x1.4 could be one of two different lenses, but my guess is it's the equivalent of the TCON-14B, not the basic TCON-14, which has a tiny 46mm thread.
The TCON-14B is a real heavy beast, but it is also the sharpest teleconverter by a long shot.





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Old Aug 3, 2005, 9:13 AM   #36
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I must have missed something here, what size sensor does the P880 have? Remember that the new 1/1.7" 7MP sensors, which appeared in recent months, have far less noise than the much larger 2/3" 8MP sensors which first appeared in the Sony F-828. Although there is a limit to how many pixels can be crammed into a sensor, the image processing in-camera is improving constantly, and remember that all files, even DSLR RAW files have been subject to some processing in-camera.

I just don't believe that every serious photographer needs a DSLR, there are many situations where a digicam, with its advantages in size, weight andzoom range, is actually a better tool. If you have special needs which require special lenses and accessories, then you need a DSLR... if you work in low light situations which require extreme sensitivity, then you need a DSLR... if you are a photojournalist working in hazardous environments, then you need a professional quality DSLR... if you are an action photographer who must get the decisive moment, then you probably could benefit from a DSLR. But if you are like me, and enjoy photography, especially with a camera which is not a load to carry, then a DSLR is not an essential item.

From 1978 to 2003 I shot exclusively with SLR cameras, I carried heavy camera bags with lenses, flash units camera bodies and other accessories. I spent more time choosing and changinglenses then I care to think about. I now own a Fuji S7000, which covers most of the focal lengths I normally used, and which, despite all of the cries of high noise levels, actually takes pictures with less "grain" than most of the 200ISO film I have used.

DSLRs represent a money pit of sorts. The budget kits currently available includes a camera body with much better capabilities than most small sensor cameras, however the lens is limited to a modest unit built to sell cheaply. So now you must add a more capable lens, if you want speed and zoom range this will be costly. Another site once noted that it took two very expensive Canon L serieslenses to match the speed and zoom range of the Sony F-828, estimated cost difference, the lenses alone cost 2.5X more than the Sony, and you still haven't added a Digital Rebel XT camera. Can you make do with the kit lens? of course, many great photographers did most of their work with only a 35mm camera and a 50mm lens (Henri Cartier-Bresson to name just one).

Time to stop being pixel-peepers and start being photographers, stop obsessing about noise and purple fringing at 100% magnification on a computer screenand start looking at prints (or at least stick to full screen images on the monitor, nice to see what was being photographed).

Would I buy a DSLR if I could afford it, of course. Do I believe that a DSLR will make me a better photographer, of course not. My images may be noise free but the overall impact will not be improved. Great images come from the mind of the photographer, not his/her camera bag.

Ira
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Old Aug 3, 2005, 9:25 AM   #37
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Well put Ira and I agree especially with the last part!!!


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Old Aug 3, 2005, 10:44 AM   #38
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Monza76 wrote:
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Fourother items in favour of these cameras, 1) No dust on the sensor issues, 2) One camerawith lens is much more portable than a DSLR kit, 3) the ability to shoot video clips now and then (it doesn't replace a video camera but at least you can capture those unexpected moments), 4) the LCD can be a great aid to framing (like a tiny view camera).

Ira

One item to disagree on: #1) Don't allow yourself to get into a false sense of security regarding dust/lint on CCDs ofnon-DSLR consumer modelcameras.

Many if not most of the larger zoom cameras use a design in which the lens barrel extends out from the camera body, and back in, many times during a shoot as you use the zoom. These plastic lens barrelsCAN attract dust and lint if you're in an environment where there's a fair amount of it drifting around in the air. If the camera uses a manualring that you can control the zoom with and you rapidly expand and contract the barrel, it can also create a low suction which can pull dust and lint INTO the camera assembly. Over time, this stuff can indeed make it's way to the CCD inside the camera, and unlike a DSLR, there is nothing the user can do except send the camera in to the manufacturer for cleaning.

Users who have emailed me via my own site (digitalcamerabasics.com) have reported this happening on Fuji S7000, Olympus 8080, and Canon Pro 1 models, among others. It's not an everyday thing, but it certainly can and does happen.

Back a few years ago there were cameras that had completely sealed bodies where the lens barrel assembly also was sealed within the body of the camera, such as the Olympus 2100uz and Canon Pro90 IS - THOSE were pretty much sealed and dust/lint proof for the most part. Camera makers decided to shun those designs due to the camera being bulkier with a completely sealed body, so now, nearly all of them use the extending lens design so the lens goes back into the camera body when powered down, making it smaller, hence, an increase in dust/link on consumer cameras. With newer models coming out, I think by looking at it the Panasonic FZ30 may have a sealed lens assembly, but the Fuji S9000 and Kodak 880 still use the extended lens design.

Your only real protection is to use whatever filter adapters the makers have available for these models that screw on around the lenses, and leave one on at all times with a UV filter on the front to better seal up the lens assembly.
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Old Aug 3, 2005, 11:19 AM   #39
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Buying an adapter and UV or Skylite filter is one of the things we all have been recomending to all newbies. Not just for dust protection but to prevent lens damage from life's hard knocks!!


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Old Aug 3, 2005, 11:59 AM   #40
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P850:
CCD Imager:
7.17mm (diagonal) overall CCD size; 2.2 micron square pixels

Lens:
Actual focal length: 6.0 to 72mm
11 elements in 9 groups with 3 aspherical surfaces.
__________________________________________________ ______

P880:
CCD Imager:
9.126mm (diagonal) overall CCD size; 2.225 micron square pixels

Lens:
Actual focal length: 5.04 to 29.38mm
13 elements in 9 groups with 2 aspherical surfaces.
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