Steve'sDigicams

jman102 · Nov 10, 2003, 12:19 PM

Hello,
I am very interested in the new A1. The camera has loads of nice features but there is only one thing holding me back....Noise!
I have read Steve's review and am concerned about the High Noise at ISO 100...Would anyone care to comment on their own experience with the camera??Thanks!

sjms · Nov 10, 2003, 8:58 PM

then i don't suggest you buy a digital camera due to the fact that noise exists in all digitals including my 1Ds.

now in rereading the conclusion that steve put together about the A1 i really must have missed the reference to the high noise at iso 100. he really had more good things to say about it. i would expect him to make a rather large point of the noise issue and there doesnt seem to be a real reference to it except in the darker areas and neat image will eliminate that with out a problem.

i have one as of last friday and it is an improvement over my 7Hi in many ways. i will say that i have been spoiled by my 1Ds in the output department but it does produse a excellent image overall. my crop capability has been reduced by the 5MP imager. i'd rather go around town on a fun day with this rather then my other somewhat weighty companion.

realize there is no perfect digital camera. each one you look at has it shining points and the its warts.

i chose it over the rebel because i wanted an all in one that i didn't need so much support gear to run it. i'm already there with the 1Ds.

i generally shoot RAW most of the time with it too

jman102 · Nov 11, 2003, 9:05 AM

I didn't mean to rule the camera out completely. I was looking for advice on how to deal with the noise whether software or otherwise. Thanks for the tip!!

sjms · Nov 11, 2003, 10:11 AM

sorry old issue.

2 products:
1- neat image
2- noise ninja

both require a careful eye least we get the plastic people look. read instructions and practice. create profiles. i treat every image like an individual.

JimC · Nov 12, 2003, 3:47 PM

See Phil Askey's "just posted" review. At typical exposure times, it's noise profile is fantastic, when adjusted for the camera's real CCD sensitivity at ISO 100.

Actually, if I had the spare bucks, I would buy one for myself.

I love my little Konica KD-510z (a.k.a., Minolta DiMAGE G500), but there will be times, that a camera with the nice 28-200mm Equivalent Zoom would come in very handy. It's too bad they can't figure out a way to give someone this much focal range and image quality in a pocketable camera, huh?!

Also, the A1 is the most full featured prosumer model you can buy.

Phil Askey just gave it a Perfect 10 out of 10 rating in the Features department area in his "just posted" review of the camera. The only Major "niggle" I've seen with this model is some noise at longer exposures (to be expected with the AntiShake CCD Design, which doesn't use the CCD heat sink used in previous models).

At shorter exposures, it's great. Anyway, some of the new noise reduction tools (if you need long exposures) makes it easy to touch them up when desired, if you're into long exposure shots -- I'm not so it wouldn't make any difference to me):

Here's Phil's new review. Check out the noise graphs, when adjusted for true ISO 100 sensitivity. It's performance is outstanding at typical shutter speeds.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/minoltadimagea1/

If you have a need for longer exposures, check out Noise Ninja. Michael Almond has a detailed comparison of 18 software packages to remove a variety of noise types. He just crowned Noise Ninja the new "King":

Noise reduction comparison article:
http://www.michaelalmond.com/Articles/noise.htm

Conclusion on page 11:
http://www.michaelalmond.com/Articles/noise10.htm

Also check out the A1 photo gallery in the Phil Askey's review at dpreview.com if you haven't seen it yet. It's images are absolutely fantastic in my opinion!

shene · Nov 16, 2003, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jman102

I am very interested in the new A1. The camera has loads of nice features but there is only one thing holding me back....Noise! I have read Steve's review and am concerned about the High Noise at ISO 100...Would anyone care to comment on their own experience with the camera??

After playing a Minolta A1 for one full day for evaluation purpose and reading many reviews in magazines and on the Internet, I finally took a plunge to order one just 10 minutes ago. I have a full range of SLR and DSLR and all Nikon 9xx, 4500, 5000 and 5700 cameras for my professional job and hobby. One major problem with the 5700 is that the AF system and AF speed have not impressed me. In many situations, I missed more shots than I can afford. Moreover, I shoot 28mm and wider than frequently. Unfortunately, the 5700 can only go as wide as 28mm. While there are third party converters, they are not of good quality to my job requirement. I fully realize the noise issue of the Minolta A1. However, IMO, getting the shots is more important than missing them. Noise can be removed to a high degree. But, missing a shot has not way to recover. This is the reason that I acquire a Minolta A1. To some degree, it would be better than my 5700, although the 5700 has a longer lens, very good accessories support, and lower noise in higher ISO (I shoot at ISO 100 exclusively). So, I decide to give the A1 a try.

CK
http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~shene/DigiCam
Nikon Coolpix 950/990/995/2500/4500 User Guide

NHL · Nov 17, 2003, 8:05 AM

I have a comment on long exposure, in fact I still own the "king of noise" D7 first iteration of this camera (now in its A1-4th improved generation). At shutter speed longer than 1s, the Dimages take two shots: One shot is taken with the regular long exposure and a second shot is taken again with the same exposure but with the camera's shutter close instead... The cameras then subtract the dark "noisy" frame from the original image producing quite acceptable results: http://www.pbase.com/nhl/daynight_comparison

The fact of the matter is this Minolta underdog is probably the closest camera to a dSLR in operation and performance this side of $1000! From its manual zoom/AF focusing ring overide to its stop-down manual metering mode (even with a real-time histogram), no other camera can even come close. The 28-200mm lens on this camera is also superb and has the "G" lettering reserved for Minolta high-end series lens (and now with an IS capable of 1/20s @ 200mm)... Not the least this A1 also carries over the TTL wireless flash system which is found only on one other brand at this time (and with no comparable Advance Distance Integration I might add)!

browntimdc · Nov 18, 2003, 2:46 PM

I've just ordered an A1 and I'm selling my 7i.

There's so much talk about image noise of the Minolta 7 cameras but very little is said about mechanical noise. I did consider the digital Rebel but one of the things I really like about my 7i is that it is so quiet and discrete. With the speaker turned off it makes just a soft click. There's no whining motor to zoom the lens like most other non-SLR digicams. There's no focus assist lamp to attract attention. I haven't had a hands-on with the Rebel but I'm guessing that reflex mirror isn't whisper quiet. The only other serious camera I know of that's so quiet is the Leica rangefinder, but that's a totally different animal.

Nov 10, 2003, 12:19 PM	#1
jman102 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 8	A1's High Noise even on ISO 100 Hello, I am very interested in the new A1. The camera has loads of nice features but there is only one thing holding me back....Noise! I have read Steve's review and am concerned about the High Noise at ISO 100...Would anyone care to comment on their own experience with the camera??Thanks!

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Nov 10, 2003, 8:58 PM	#2
sjms Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,735	then i don't suggest you buy a digital camera due to the fact that noise exists in all digitals including my 1Ds. now in rereading the conclusion that steve put together about the A1 i really must have missed the reference to the high noise at iso 100. he really had more good things to say about it. i would expect him to make a rather large point of the noise issue and there doesnt seem to be a real reference to it except in the darker areas and neat image will eliminate that with out a problem. i have one as of last friday and it is an improvement over my 7Hi in many ways. i will say that i have been spoiled by my 1Ds in the output department but it does produse a excellent image overall. my crop capability has been reduced by the 5MP imager. i'd rather go around town on a fun day with this rather then my other somewhat weighty companion. realize there is no perfect digital camera. each one you look at has it shining points and the its warts. i chose it over the rebel because i wanted an all in one that i didn't need so much support gear to run it. i'm already there with the 1Ds. i generally shoot RAW most of the time with it too

Nov 11, 2003, 9:05 AM	#3
jman102 Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 8	I didn't mean to rule the camera out completely. I was looking for advice on how to deal with the noise whether software or otherwise. Thanks for the tip!!

Nov 11, 2003, 10:11 AM	#4
sjms Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 2,735	sorry old issue. 2 products: 1- neat image 2- noise ninja both require a careful eye least we get the plastic people look. read instructions and practice. create profiles. i treat every image like an individual.

Nov 12, 2003, 3:47 PM	#5
JimC Administrator Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Savannah, GA (USA) Posts: 22,378	See Phil Askey's "just posted" review. At typical exposure times, it's noise profile is fantastic, when adjusted for the camera's real CCD sensitivity at ISO 100. Actually, if I had the spare bucks, I would buy one for myself. I love my little Konica KD-510z (a.k.a., Minolta DiMAGE G500), but there will be times, that a camera with the nice 28-200mm Equivalent Zoom would come in very handy. It's too bad they can't figure out a way to give someone this much focal range and image quality in a pocketable camera, huh?! Also, the A1 is the most full featured prosumer model you can buy. Phil Askey just gave it a Perfect 10 out of 10 rating in the Features department area in his "just posted" review of the camera. The only Major "niggle" I've seen with this model is some noise at longer exposures (to be expected with the AntiShake CCD Design, which doesn't use the CCD heat sink used in previous models). At shorter exposures, it's great. Anyway, some of the new noise reduction tools (if you need long exposures) makes it easy to touch them up when desired, if you're into long exposure shots -- I'm not so it wouldn't make any difference to me): Here's Phil's new review. Check out the noise graphs, when adjusted for true ISO 100 sensitivity. It's performance is outstanding at typical shutter speeds. http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/minoltadimagea1/ If you have a need for longer exposures, check out Noise Ninja. Michael Almond has a detailed comparison of 18 software packages to remove a variety of noise types. He just crowned Noise Ninja the new "King": Noise reduction comparison article: http://www.michaelalmond.com/Articles/noise.htm Conclusion on page 11: http://www.michaelalmond.com/Articles/noise10.htm Also check out the A1 photo gallery in the Phil Askey's review at dpreview.com if you haven't seen it yet. It's images are absolutely fantastic in my opinion!

Nov 17, 2003, 8:05 AM	#7
NHL Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: 39.18776, -77.311353333333 Posts: 11,599	I have a comment on long exposure, in fact I still own the "king of noise" D7 first iteration of this camera (now in its A1-4th improved generation). At shutter speed longer than 1s, the Dimages take two shots: One shot is taken with the regular long exposure and a second shot is taken again with the same exposure but with the camera's shutter close instead... The cameras then subtract the dark "noisy" frame from the original image producing quite acceptable results: http://www.pbase.com/nhl/daynight_comparison The fact of the matter is this Minolta underdog is probably the closest camera to a dSLR in operation and performance this side of $1000! From its manual zoom/AF focusing ring overide to its stop-down manual metering mode (even with a real-time histogram), no other camera can even come close. The 28-200mm lens on this camera is also superb and has the "G" lettering reserved for Minolta high-end series lens (and now with an IS capable of 1/20s @ 200mm)... Not the least this A1 also carries over the TTL wireless flash system which is found only on one other brand at this time (and with no comparable Advance Distance Integration I might add)!

Nov 18, 2003, 2:46 PM	#8
browntimdc Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 20	I've just ordered an A1 and I'm selling my 7i. There's so much talk about image noise of the Minolta 7 cameras but very little is said about mechanical noise. I did consider the digital Rebel but one of the things I really like about my 7i is that it is so quiet and discrete. With the speaker turned off it makes just a soft click. There's no whining motor to zoom the lens like most other non-SLR digicams. There's no focus assist lamp to attract attention. I haven't had a hands-on with the Rebel but I'm guessing that reflex mirror isn't whisper quiet. The only other serious camera I know of that's so quiet is the Leica rangefinder, but that's a totally different animal.