NOISE NOISE NOISE

[sjms]

its the other way around k64(minolta) velvia(nikon).

[NHL]

sjms

Hey I haven't touch film for at least several years... I can sure remember the darkroom smell though! :lol: :lol: :lol:

[sjms]

believe me you really wouldn't home process K64 anyway c41 process is a chemists dream or nightmare depending on how you look at it. it is unlike any film made.

slipped the little darling into my slide scanner and instant digital image of outstanding quality.

i respectfully bow out of this witch hunt.

i remember a certain individul once telling me to take a hike out of another particular forum. he now suffers from the same issues i was once acccused of. so you all have fun beating each other up.

[NHL]

That's why I got them confused, my last attempt was with E-6!

[Klaus DK]

SJMS:

i remember a certain individul once telling me to take a hike out of another particular forum. he now suffers from the same issues i was once acccused of. so you all have fun beating each other up.

The difference - in this discussion - between you and me, is that I'm considering buying a MINOLTA DIMAGE 7Hi (in case you forgot) and therefore participate and follow this very discussion. I thought it would help me deciding if I should buy - but I think NHL and especially you tries to take the discussion in another direction than the topic originally was. ´NOISE NOISE NOISE!

BTW ... I'm much to civilized and friendly to tell anybody to take a hike out of a forum. As I said then - I wondered what YOU and the Minolta guys won by talking bad about the Nikon digicams! I still wonder!

And now I sadly see that you are pulling out from your own backyard too...

[Sanpete]

NHL

But in my opinion you already have a bad inkling for this camera, and I would not recommend it...

What I have a "bad inkling" for is implausible claims that are made without evidence, especially when they're associated with attacks on other people and products (i.e. Phil Askey, owners of other cameras who disagree with the Minolta mythology, and cameras that don't produce the Minolta noise). If you can't back up your claims you either shouldn't make them or you should state up front that you have no solid evidence for them.

You attack Phil because he won't accept your claims, but you provide no reason for him to do so. Maybe you should ease up until you have your evidence.

I happen to have a very high regard for the 7i/7Hi, as you would know if you paid attention to the posts you've been responding to.

[Sanpete]

sjms

Thanks for your comments. I agree (and have said) that each camera has its own limitations. What's important for those considering a camera is that they get straight imformation on just what the particular limitations of the camera are so they can accurately judge how it fits their preferences. Several Minolta partisans are more inclined to try to sweep the noisiness of their cameras under the rug than to just state outright that the camera does in fact produce significantly more noise than its competitors and that this may or may not be a problem. All this mumbo-jumbo about how the noise actually represents in any way a superior imaging system to that of Sony and Nikon stands with no proof whatsoever, and is a disservice to those looking for honest, well supported information.

It's not a matter of me not getting the answer I want, only that I want good information instead of the repitition of creeds and articles of faith. I would be very happy to learn that all the noise is there because it helps deliver some other superior qualities. Sadly, no one who has made this claim is willing to back it up with good evidence. As long as they continue to make such claims, the subject isn't moot.

By the way, I disagree with you that the peculiar defects and limitations of other cameras don't affect the owners of those cameras. If it's true that a camera blows the highlights, that affects their work whether they acknowledge it or not. Blown highlights, like noise, are facts, not opinions.

[sjms]

Klaus DK- you are are as guilty as i was. you just can't admit it. i especially liked that "oh im so glad" statement. so you. it made you seem to be an opportunist.

i'm just pulling out from this discussion its at the point of no return anyway

sanpete- i was eluding to the point of the blow out being an issue. none of these are problems. these are issues that can be delt with proper work on the editor of your choice.

[Sanpete]

fotograafdigi

Thanks for all the useful tips on how you use your camera. Very helpful. Some of these tips can be applied also to other cameras with perhaps even better results, can't they, since they begin with less noise already?

I don't agree. The camera doesnt have a problem with noise. The camera doesnt care. The people who have the D7i have a problem with the noise.

This purely semantic quibble advances nothing. You might as well say that a broken camera that doesn't even take photos doesn't have a problem, only the owner!

You seem to believe that the amount of noise present in the Minolta files is also present at some point in the processing of the images of all similar cameras. This is an important claim for which no evidence has been presented. Why do you believe it?

I haven't noticed anyone screaming in this thread (at least not since the title post). The reason this issue never dies is that some Minolta owners continue to deny things for which there is good evidence, or to assert things for which they have no evidence. If the owners of cameras with obvious color problems did the same, they would find that those issues would never die either. Being up front with the facts has a way of settling issues.

[fotograafdigi]

*sigh*

Someone said:

"You seem to believe that the amount of noise present in the Minolta files is also present at some point in the processing of the images of all similar cameras. "

Yes, if they use the same CCD (and a number of simmilair 5mp cams do), it simply has to be. Thats a fact, not an opinion.

And about the tips (that indeed can be applied on any cam / input source / image editting software), yes, a better input image will result in a better end-result, i wont deny that.

Neither will I deny that there is some noise present. But yes, it has to do with the processing, which is different (or as some say: worse) then in other cams.

However, that subject is beaten to death by now, I respect other peoples opinions and just wanted to share my 2ct's (opinion), and give some general tips along the way.

Let's just all get along and enjoy photography whatever the tools, light is still my no 1. ingredient for a good image