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Old Dec 22, 2003, 3:54 PM   #11
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Default Re: Z1 Opinions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blues
That said, I also appreciate foffodc's and sonomablue's criticisms of your repeated postings. Why? Because until I read their responses, I was under the impression, from reading these and other boards, that there were a rash of negative opinions on the Z1. I now know that the negative opinions are from one person. Again, while it's useful to hear these opinions, it's also useful to know that it's an opinion from just one person, not a whole bunch of people.
First of all, it is simply not true that I am the only one with negative comments on the Z1. That's ridiculous. Second, I realize that it is difficult to keep track of various users on the different message boards (who visits where, does one person visit all them, etc.). However, I've made it easy for everyone because with the exception of one Sony specific message board/website, I always go by the ID of Effzeeone. So, it's easier to keep track of me, because I go by the same ID most of the time. You may want to go back through the various message boards and look to see who is making the negative comments -- they aren't all me.

With rare exception, I have also listed the positives along with the negatives when giving my opinion of the Z1 (or any camera for that matter). I realize that on a Minolta oriented message board, the negatives are going to "hit" harder than the positives in a message though, so it doesn't surprise me that the negative comments are the most criticized and remembered.

I will keep posting here, as well as on any other forum that is for a camera that I either currently own or previously owned. I will also continue to post comments (both positive and negative) about any camera I currently own or previously owned. I do this because as I shopper, *I* would appreciate it when deciding about what camera to buy. I don't just want positive opinions, and you can typically get the most information out of negative reviews, even if you do not agree with them.
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Old Dec 22, 2003, 4:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonomablue
I was appreciating your response, until I got to this line:

I find comments like yours where you say you've found nothing wrong with the Z1 to be suspect.

Tell me, in which of my posts did i EVER say that I had found "nothing" wrong with my Z1? When you start making sh&t up on a message board, then you loose all credibility.
First of all, I wish to go on record that I usually don't respond to people who resort to profanity (especially thinly disguised so the software won't pick it up). It says a lot about you, and definitely tells me that my interaction to you (including any responses in the future) should be minimal or nonexistent. Solve your obvious maturity issue or go visit the teenager message boards where everyone talks in a "lingo" that includes thinly disguised profanity. I said that everyone is welcome in a public message board, but personal attacks, rude behavior, profanity, and anything else typically described as "flaming" has no place here. I cannot kick you off a message board that I do not run or own, but I can ignore you in the future if you choose to respond in such a manner (and I will).

Quote:
What a cheap shot.
Are you just trying to be hypocritical with that statement?


Quote:
I simply wanted to communicate that fact to the many readers of this message board - especially because the only posts that i had seen about the Z1 were negative.
According to others on this thread, I'm the only one posting negative messages about the Z1...on ALL message boards.


Quote:
I take you up on your offer. Go for it. List the negatives of your camera as well, and be sure to include the review site's negative comments as well. Just to be fair, right?)
Visit the PanaLumix Yahoo Group, the Panasonic forum here at Steve's, or the Panasonic forum at DPReview, and you will see all sorts of criticisms from me about the FZ1 and Panasonic-in-general. I would've have normally obliged you for taking me up on my offer to reply with FZ1 criticisms, but given the tone and lack of maturity in your response -- I will not. Do your own research on my criticisms. Why should I save you the time and consolidate it for you when you are so rude?


Quote:
Try not to make sh&t up, and then start some argument or debate based on your made up statements.
This leads me to believe that you're actually a 12-year-old who is using his dad's picture on your forum profile. First of all, profanity again (grow up!). Second, it takes two to argue. I am not arguing with you. You corrected me on something you didn't say. Fine. I stand corrected. End of "debate" or "argument". You seem very trigger happy, always ready to blast someone at the drop of a hat. This is typical of very immature or very young forum members, and is typically called "baiting" or "trolling".

Quote:
I am surely enjoying my Z1.
I am sincerely (seriously) happy for you. I too wish I had been happy with the Z1, but I was not. Like I said in my above post, I will keep posting here, as well as on any other forum that is for a camera that I either currently own or previously owned. I will also continue to post comments (both positive and negative) about any camera I currently own or previously owned. I do this because as I shopper, *I* would appreciate it when deciding about what camera to buy. I don't just want positive opinions, and you can typically get the most information out of negative reviews, even if you do not agree with them.

If you don't like this, I wouldn't advise visiting the Sony, Kodak, Olympus, Panasonic, or Minolta forums on any of the popular sites. You will see Effzeeone posting messages on every one of them.
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Old Dec 23, 2003, 4:24 AM   #13
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EffZeeOne,

I wanted to ignore your reply, but you left me no alternative than to respond. The problem is that i do not know where to begin. Unfortunately, neither of us feel inclined to let this one drop, so it will probably be weeks before this chain ends.

(1) You say "my interaction to you ... should be minimal or nonexistent". And then you go on and write a book - in your response to me. You are not even true to your own convictions or statements. (I think that they call that "Schizophrenia"). Maybe you ned some professional help.

(2) I get real pleasure in seeing your imaginative responsives; cuttiing and pasting, and using a multitude of html coding to make my comments, and your responses, stand out. You must be so proud of making your responses appear so wonderful.

(3) You make a crude attempt at characterizing me as a teenager. You make some claim that i am using my father's icon. Such feeble attempts to downplay and minimize my statements. No, I am not a teenager. The icon is me. Whether you wish to believe it or not, it is me. I am 48. My 30 year high school reunion (1973) was this past summer. I don't see YOU posting a picture of yourself. But, I guess that either (a) you don't have a website to point to in order to use a jpg image, or, (b) you don't know how to do so, or (c) you are too embarrassed to reveal yourself to the rest of the readers.

(4) You never did defend your lie, in which you accused me of stating that there is "nothing" wrong with my Z1. Instead, you changed the subject (typical technique of someone that can not defend their own position or argument). Instead, you attackd me because I used the word "sh&t". Gee, is that what you base the ultimate conclusion of a discussion on, is the use of language. I would be willing to put it to a vote - for the readers of this website.

Would they (the readers of this website) prefer to read a post (of yours) which containted no colorful language, but contained lies and mistatements. Or, would they (the readers) prefer to read a comment (of mine) that contained the word "sh&t" but contained 100% truthful statements, and meaningful information. Only the readers can speak for themselves. I will speak for myself: I would prefer to read past some colorful language, if i knew that the information was valuable information, than to read a "clean" comment that was full of bull-pucky (like yours).

I suppose that you never use any colorful language, ever. Not at work, not around co-workers, not arounnd your family. I guess you are perfect, just like your camera.

(5) You seem to be hung up on the term "bigot". Yes, I started it first . It was intended to be a comical comment, to make a point. Yet, you have grabbed hold with both hands and won't let go. Let's see, if we a look a bit more closely, it is YOU (and not me, or others) that has a bi-line (below your name) that contains a reference to the manufactuer of your camera. You don't see my name with a "Minolta Yahoo Group" bi-line below. You are the one with the "PanaLumix Yahoo Group" bi-line below your name. Can't you even see the OBVIOUS.

I was born in 1955. How about you? Since you challenged me, I responded with my age. How about you? Can you respond in kind? Or, will you simply change the subject again. You are so brave with your comments. Let us see YOUR face. I have already done so.

Again. I am enjoying my Z1. I took pictures of my son, daughter (and her girlfriend) and my wife tonight. How about you, with your EffZeeONe.?

Grow up, and stop lying.
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Old Dec 23, 2003, 2:21 PM   #14
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Default Final Reply to "Sonomablue" and Summary Z1 Review/

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonomablue
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH...BIGOT BIGOT BIGOT...PANASONIC SUCKS....SH&T SH&T SH&T SH&T....BLAH BLAH BLAH....
You may have actually typed something different than the above, but when I read your response(s), that's all I'm getting out of them.

Look, I'm done. I've said my piece and don't care to banter back and forth with a 12-year-old (or at least a 48-year-old with a 12-year-old mentality). I've obviously struck a bad nerve with you, most likely over your choice of cameras, since you seem to be so hyper-defensive about it, and so critical over my camera (which you have never owned). It's time for this thread to return to something useful for the other members here.

I am sorry that you cannot handle my disagreeing with you on whether or not the Z1 is a good camera or even one that can be recommended without reservation. I personally think the Z1 is a good camera...as in mediocre...but not a great camera. I commend Minolta for attempting to put out such a well-featured camera, but I think they tried to pack too much in far too little of a MSRP, and the result was a little suffering in quality and functionality of all these features. I cannot and do not recommend the Z1 over the Panasonic FZ1. I could possibly recommend it over other cameras in the superzoom class, but I refuse to talk out of my posterior about cameras that I have never owned or directly compared side-by-side with the Z1, so I will let someone else who has owned an Olympus, Fuji, etc. make that recommendation (or not).

Again, if you would read my older posts on the Z1, you would see that I had very high hopes of the Z1 working out as my camera of choice. It did not -- that is my opinion and my experience with directly comparing two cameras. Until you have done a direct, side-by-side comparison between the Z1 and FZ1, I really dont' care to hear any further comments about my findings regarding these two specific cameras. Stick to your own findings and leave mine alone.
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Old Dec 23, 2003, 3:30 PM   #15
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I've just read your discussion about Z1. I was interested to see how much Chris has critisized FZ1 on Panasonic Forum. Just look at his profile, check "Find all post by..." and you can see how much critical he is about FZ1.

You can find his "test" of Z1 at "http://www.stevesforums.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12900&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta rt=50".
Very impressive and deep. (Some picture in "Auto mode")
I suppose that after this very "complete" test we must count him as a "Guru" of photography!
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Old Dec 23, 2003, 6:06 PM   #16
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I have read the discussion between EffZeeOne and sonomablue. I think that EffZeeOne is quite full of himself. He seems to have Minolta-envy. I think sonomablue's information was more useful. I have considered buying either the Z1 or a Cannon. I still have not made up my mind. I appreciate hearing that some Minolta camera owners like their cameras. Maybe EffZeeOne should not get so defensive about the whole thing. His last note was very immature.
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Old Dec 23, 2003, 8:52 PM   #17
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Folks, let it drop. This thread is becoming moronic, and to be honest I am feeling like a moron for getting sucked into a flamewar with a few people who really aren't worth my time. Move on to Minolta related topics. If you feel the need to specifically attack or criticize me, please do it via the Private Message function of this forum software. That way, it's only me who has to ignore you and not all the visitors of this website.

For those of you who have replied to my postings on this thread with snide or rude comments and personal attacks, I think it says volumes about you when you so eagerly come out of the woodwork to perpetuate this worthless flamewar thread, but the following message threads involve questions about the Z1, and they have received no replies at all! Why don't you try to help out your fellow Z1 owners/shoppers with their questions instead of attacking people for their opinions?

http://www.stevesforums.com/phpBB2/v...ic.php?t=18482

http://www.stevesforums.com/phpBB2/v...ic.php?t=18307

http://www.stevesforums.com/phpBB2/v...ic.php?t=18128

http://www.stevesforums.com/phpBB2/v...ic.php?t=17692
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Old Dec 23, 2003, 10:37 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adwulf
You can find his "test" of Z1 at "http://www.stevesforums.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12900&postdays=0&postorder=asc&sta rt=50".
Very impressive and deep. (Some picture in "Auto mode")
I suppose that after this very "complete" test we must count him as a "Guru" of photography!
I will reply to this because it has to do with the Z1, specifically my comparison of it to the FZ1.

First, here's a clickable link to that thread:

Effzeeone's Z1 & FZ1 Comparison

Here's a quote from part of the thread where it pretty much addresses your sarcastic comment about it being a "complete" test and clearly explains why I only tested the Z1 in auto mode. I also wish to emphasize that I probably took several hundred pictures in a variety of indoor and outdoor conditions.

Quote:
I compared the two cameras side by side with the only thing different (other than the cameras) being the tripod they were each on. For "accurate" comparison of what would be "normal use" for me, I kept both cameras in full auto mode. I didn't want to mess with ISO settings, white balance, exposure, or other manual settings that both cameras have because that's not how I typical use a camera. I did take pictures at full 3.2 resolution on the Minolta and then also took pictures at 2.0 megapixel resolution for a more direct comparison to the Panasonic's 2.0 megapixel resolution. Whether at full resolution or not, there was a lot of noise in the Minolta, even in late afternoon daylight shots (albeit on a cloudy day). The difference between the FZ1's and Z1's output in full auto mode in all the scenarios was surprising to me. It made me at least a little disappointed in the Z1, but on the upside did make me happier with my the FZ1.

I guess I need to emphasize here that my purpose was definitely to find FLAWS in either the FZ1 or the Z1 (to make a decision on which to keep), so again, opinions will vary and the casual user of either camera may not notice any of the flaws that I noticed in picture quality. I was looking for them. My "test" were very user specific, not "lab quality", and purely based on opinion on the level of visible noise, both on the camera's LCD view and on my computer monitor.
Unless you have performed your own side-by-side test of these two cameras, you really don't need to make comment about the test itself. I made no pretence that the test was professional or scientific (and specifically stated that it was not), but it was enough for me to assess the auto mode of each camera and decide which one was better for me. Again, I typically use my cameras in auto mode because the majority of my photos are spontaneous. I am sure that I could have improved the quality of the Z1's pictures with some manual adjustments, but by the time I get three or four different manual settings configured for the specific conditions, I've lost the moment and my opportunity. I don't have that problem with the FZ1, which is why (after comparing the two) I decided to keep it.

Considering the Z1 is now being advertised during the primetime television hour and is being marketed toward typical point-n-shoot consumers rather than professionals, I think that my opinion of the lacking quality of the Z1's auto mode to be very relevant to most people who are shopping for a Z1.
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Old Dec 25, 2003, 7:28 PM   #19
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Ok, i have a question.
What is so wrong with a teen in the forum?
Yes, i am 13, i was born in 1990, and that is me in the avatar.
I am sitting here thinking, and i can't think of a good reason what is wrong with that.
No, you may not have said that, but you implied it.
As long as i have camera knoledge...

It may sound "madish" from what i am typing, but as i read you guys "fight" i am smileing
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Old Dec 25, 2003, 11:49 PM   #20
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Default We Have One Person Using Four Different IDs, Folks!

Hmmm...Adwulf, Patrickspix, and Iwantmydigicam2 all joined on 12/23/03, have each only posted one message, and have only responded to threads that are critical of the Z1 (both in the Minolta and Panasonic forums). The also all share very similar vocabular, syntax, etc.

Call me Dick Tracy or Sherlock Holmes, but I'm getting the funny feeling that all three of these people are the same person. So is that what we're doing now -- making up virtual friends to back our position/opinion on something?

Geesh.
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