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Old Dec 10, 2003, 3:10 PM   #1
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Default Real world pictures (1A vs 5700)

Hi, I'm new to the group and would like some info on the clarity of pictures with the 1A. I've been deciding between the 1A and the CP5700. Overall, IMHO and as Steve has pointed out in his reviews, the 1A has more to offer than the 5700 in the way of performance options. I agree and am strongly leaning towards purchasing the 1A. However, my problem in making my final decision is that the picture images appear to be better with the Nikon. I'm basing this on the use of the comparator function available on the imaging-resourse.com site.

When comparing (as viewed on my trinitron monitor) the 5700 test pattern images to those of the 1A, I saw a lot of noise artifacts within the Minolta test pattern that were not present in the 5700's pattern. Will this noise show up in real world pictures, and if they do, at what point in the blow-up sequence? That is, starting with 4x6, and going to 8x10, 11x14, 16x20, etc where does the noise start becoming noticable? Furthermore, what about blow ups of cropped portions of the original?

I'm planning on making this camera purchase as the last one in a long string of purchases over the years. I'm probably a low level photography enthusiast, but if the ol' body doesn't hold up, I probably would get more serious about photogaphy and don't want to say to myself that I made the wrong choice because of "fuzzy" blow ups.

Thanks fro your help.

Adam
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Old Dec 10, 2003, 9:39 PM   #2
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THis is a link to a post in another forum. check out the 20x30.http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...essage=6908150

Lem
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Old Dec 11, 2003, 6:52 AM   #3
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Thanks for the reference. However, when looking at that big blow up, it is really hard to tell whether or not there is noise. Although, the posts do claim that there is little or no noise. Still need more information.
Adam
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Old Dec 11, 2003, 9:46 AM   #4
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well if noise is an issue to you you should be shooting RAW rather then allowing the camera to process internally from RAW to JPG. doing the process externally with a conversion utility like C1 ARC or minoltas own will allow you a considerable level of control over your image.

also the use of Noise Ninja or Neat Image properly will improve any image. that of course if the shot needs it

it is true that the nikon NR is better the Minoltas (and that will vary from situation to situation) but the minolta camera over all is a much more responsive and higher usability camera. as mentioned above noise is a treatable situation when needed. the design and operation of the camera is something you will have to live with and cannot be changed once you have it.

going to a 16x20 with 5MP either camera would be a stretch without a reprocessing util like FM SI or Genuine Fractals types.

the AF is better especially in lower light.
the Strobe System is way better. external strobes couple better to the metering system. they can be even go wireless on on certain models.
the lens it self where it lacks in the one inch away from the object macro capability has a much better more used 28mm WA with little to no distortion.

its give and take with these kinds of cameras. choose the one that fits your needs.


that why i chose it over the nikon.
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Old Dec 12, 2003, 1:20 PM   #5
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So, as I see it, in order to get very good quality pictures (minimum noise) with the 1A (particulary when cropping and blowing up), one has to first shoot in RAW and then convert to jpg (or some similar format). As I am not familiar with using RAW files and conversion, I'd appreciate knowing just how much work and cost is involved with this process. Does one always shot in RAW, or is it OK to shot in jpg for regular shots, but use RAW when one expects to crop and blow up? Do RAW files take up a lot more card room than does jpg? I have MS Photo Draw. Can something like Neat Image (free) be used with it to reduce noise, or must I get a new (and hopefully not terribly expensive) app to work the photo files? Well, as you can see this stuff is new to me, so please excuse all these newbie questions. Thanks,
Adam
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Old Dec 12, 2003, 6:24 PM   #6
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Quote:
So, as I see it, in order to get very good quality pictures (minimum noise) with the 1A (particulary when cropping and blowing up), one has to first shoot in RAW and then convert to jpg (or some similar format).
no not in all situations. but if you want the best image from any camera RAW is it. all blowing up, NR,and cropping is done post conversion

i choose to shoot RAW for my control. some cameras do an outstanding job of noise removal (because all cameras produce noise). now they can also in doing this remove some level of detail. that is where i prefer control. i have noise reduction turned off on my 1Ds.

you can shoot interchangably in any format available on the camera. again i do it ofte. on my 1Ds i can shoot both at the same time. one shot taken and the RAW image goes to the card and a matching JPG is processed and placed in right behind it on the card.

processing of RAW can be real simple or you can make it as hard as you want. some people make it their lifes work.

yes RAW does take up more space. this is because it uses a lossless compression scheme they are smaller then thet used to be. its usually the jpg compression that intros the some oth the noise and artifacts into the image.

Neat Image is a outstanding piece of software in fact they just updated it today. i use the pro version as a plugin in PS. it does require more user intervention the other programs.there is also Noise Ninja.it works almost on autopilot and also works extremely well too. at this point it is a stand alone software item. i am waiting for it to integrate into PS as a plugin.

since both NI and NN are available as stand alone apps you will not be required to get PS or any other wallet bending software. the major advantages to PS is workflow management.
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Old Dec 13, 2003, 11:59 AM   #7
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Good to know that I can use one of the NR apps as a stand alone. BTW how do these NR apps handle, or not handle the 1A's apparent problem with these resolution test patterns (see http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/mino...ea1/page20.asp). I know that real world is different from test patterns, but this test appears to show some big differences. Thanks,
Adam
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Old Dec 13, 2003, 12:15 PM   #8
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well i guess if you shooting test partterns all day i'd shoot raw and watch some of those issues disappear.

did you also notice the color chips the color accuracy is better the most too and as was said easily controlled by the camera the worst was sony.

i have to shoot at a level the moire could be a problem and again if so that can be relieved too.

by no means do i consider thr A1 a perfect camera. what i do say it has more versatility and 95% of its warts can be lanced by someone that can think. the issue with the 5700 are all basic hardware design issues the only way you get around then is to get another camera or to accessorize to death.
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Old Dec 13, 2003, 3:03 PM   #9
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Won't be shooting test patterns, but that moire comparison sure looked scary. But given that you said it can be remedied by a NR progam, I guess it is time to run out an get an 1A...when the prices hopefully fall a little more after the Holidays. Thanks for hanging in there with me...
Adam
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Old Dec 13, 2003, 3:48 PM   #10
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look at photos.

also those were down near the extinction level.

look at FM actions Moire reducer

i have it in PS but haven't needrd to use it.
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