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Old Feb 6, 2005, 3:25 PM   #1
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Now I've only had the A200 a few days so this may be down to me but I never had this problem with the Fuji S602.

I started a thread called A200 'Panoramic Mode' in which I described how to take a sequence of images & stitch them together in Panorama Factory. Thursday's shots were fine. I locked the exposure and took a number in sequence which all had the same exposure & colour rendition. I've used this technique with total success & no failures when using my Fuji over the last 2 years.

Today, total failure. No two adjacent shots are the same - see image below. I'm using 'P' Mode with 'Auto' Colour Balance & VIVID selected.

The image on the left looks right to recollection whereas the image on the right looks too warm with a brown cast.

Auto Colour balanceshould select 'daylight' under these conditions but what effect could 'Vivid' have.

Any suggestion greatly appreciated as this is a not only very disappointing but a severe limitation to my usage.

MOST IMPORTANT UPDATE
Colour Mode MUST be set to NATURAL - DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT USE VIVID when creating shots that you either want to compare or stitch together.

Tests that I performed today have confirmed that this does not happen when Natural Colour Mode is used.


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Old Feb 6, 2005, 3:36 PM   #2
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Following on from my earlier post, these two images are basically of the same scene whereas in a panned sequence, the subject is changing should that have been the reason for the change in colour.

If the VIVID feature processes each image separately despite having locked the exposure, then I can accept why this has happened - I'll just turn off 'VIVID', if that's the cause, & that should fix it.

However, how do we explain why two like shots should look so different.

Again, any suggestions greatly appreciated.

MOST IMPORTANT UPDATE
Colour Mode MUST be set to NATURAL - DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT USE VIVID when creating shots that you either want to compare of stitch together.

Tests that I performed today have confirmed that this does not happen when Natural Colour Mode is used.

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Old Feb 6, 2005, 5:01 PM   #3
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Wow. That's really bizarre. It looks like the white balance has gone flaky. I know there's been some issues with the auto white balance that I've experienced. But not like that.

Maybe try calibrating your own white balance setting and try again? I believe the A200 will allow you to store up to two custom white balance settings.



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Old Feb 7, 2005, 12:05 PM   #4
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Well, I discovered what the problem is & it's use of VIVID Colour Mode.

I took a sequence of shots in which VIVID + Auto White Balance, NATURAL + Auto White Balance and NATURAL + Daylight Balance using UV Filter, Skylight Filter & No Filter.

In every instance that VIVID was used it resulted in a difference between adjacent shots in the panned sequence.

In every instance where NATURAL & Auto White Balance was used the adjacent image colour rendition was correct.

However, not all shots using NATURAL & White Balance set to Daylight worked well.

In conclusion:

Colour Mode MUST be set to NATURAL - DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT USE VIVID when creating shots that you either want to compare or stitch together.

Tests that I performed today have confirmed that this does not happen when Natural Colour Mode is used.


I would also recommend that White Balance be set to AUTO.


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Old Feb 7, 2005, 4:36 PM   #5
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I always use vivid color mode :-)
I have been told however, that you should always use custom, or one of the preset WB modes when doing pans. Auto WB gives strange results.
Thanks for the tip on Vivid vs. Natural color mode though.
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Old Feb 7, 2005, 11:59 PM   #6
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Catbells wrote:
Quote:
Well, I discovered what the problem is & it's use of VIVID Colour Mode.

I took a sequence of shots in which VIVID + Auto White Balance, NATURAL + Auto White Balance and NATURAL + Daylight Balance using UV Filter, Skylight Filter & No Filter.

In every instance that VIVID was used it resulted in a difference between adjacent shots in the panned sequence.

In every instance where NATURAL & Auto White Balance was used the adjacent image colour rendition was correct.

However, not all shots using NATURAL & White Balance set to Daylight worked well.

In conclusion:

Colour Mode MUST be set to NATURAL - DO NOT, I REPEAT, DO NOT USE VIVID when creating shots that you either want to compare or stitch together.

Tests that I performed today have confirmed that this does not happen when Natural Colour Mode is used.


I would also recommend that White Balance be set to AUTO.

I really think your problem is due to the settings for the white balance and exposure mode.

With the white balance set to "auto"it willshift as you take different shots in your sequence. The vivid mode might be making it more visible though.

When takinga series of photos to be stiched together, you mustset the white balance manually to one of the modes, and youmust set your exposure manuallyso that it's constant. Using "P" modewill give you sufficientdifferences in exposure that will show up on the final stitched photo.

I'm sure your camera has a "stitch-assist" or "panorama" mode? That mode will allow you to use"P" or other exposure modes, and itshould lock the white balance and exposure on the first picture in a series... your manual should have details on this.

The other suggestions I have is to avoid using the widest setting on the lens. Most lens, expescially wide ratio zooms, will have noticeable barrel distortion at the widest setting and this couldcause some problems at the stitch borders. Try to overlap theimages by at least 30%.... and 50% is better...

hope this helps...

by the way, I put a panorama photo in a post in the Canon folder under "Pro 1 focusing problems" have a look if you get a chance...

cheers... Santos...


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Old Feb 8, 2005, 2:03 PM   #7
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Santos wrote:
Quote:
I really think your problem is due to the settings for the white balance and exposure mode. Agreed
With the white balance set to "auto"it willshift as you take different shots in your sequence.Never the case with the Fuji S602The vivid mode might be making it more visible though. Vivid mode is certainly the problem

When takinga series of photos to be stitched together, you mustset the white balance manually to one of the modes, and youmust set your exposure manuallyso that it's constant. Exposure was locked at the 1st frame Using "P" modewill give you sufficientdifferences in exposure that will show up on the final stitched photo. This doesn't follow if the exposure has been locked

I'm sure your camera has a "stitch-assist" or "panorama" mode? That mode will allow you to use"P" or other exposure modes, and itshould lock the white balance and exposure on the first picture in a series... your manual should have details on this. Not on the A200 unless it's well hidden

The other suggestions I have is to avoid using the widest setting on the lens. Most lens, especially wide ratio zooms, will have noticeable barrel distortion at the widest setting and this couldcause some problems at the stitch borders. Try to overlap theimages by at least 30%.... and 50% is better...
Hi Santos

Thanks for your input but as I mentioned in the threadI started the other day titled A200 Panoramic Mode http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...mp;forum_id=20I used Vivid Colour Mode and it worked - presumably because the lighting was flat due the dull & overcast conditions; I've used this process with my Fuji S602 for a number of years without problems.

On the next occasion that I repeated the process, the lighting was brighter with a lot of haze about. Those were the shots that produced the difference in colour between adjacent shots.

The exposure was locked on the first shot and the sequenced panned canceling the exposure lock on the final shot.

I've since taken a sequence of shots using VIVID + Auto White Balance, NATURAL + Auto White Balance and NATURAL + Daylight Balance using UV Filter, Skylight Filter & No Filter.

In every instance that VIVID was used it resulted in a difference between adjacent shots in the panned sequence.

In every instance where NATURAL & Auto White Balance was used the adjacent image colour rendition was correct.

However, not all shots using NATURAL & White Balance set to Daylight worked well.

I have therefore concluded that Vivid Colour Mode should be avoided for sequencial shots which are to be used to create a panoramic view.

That aside, I'm still left with a number of individual shots taken in Vivid Colour Mode in which 2 in the sequence showed sever colour difference almost identical to the situation above for which I have yet to find a logical explanation.

I have forwarded this to technical services at Minolta for their comment and will report back here on their reply.
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Old Feb 8, 2005, 3:41 PM   #8
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Catbells wrote:

Hi Catbells, my added comments are in orange colour ...
Quote:
Santos wrote:
Quote:
I really think your problem is due to the settings for the white balance and exposure mode. Agreed
With the white balance set to "auto"it willshift as you take different shots in your sequence.Never the case with the Fuji S602Not all cameras handleAWB well. This camera was reviewed at dpreview recently, the reviewer did mention that he sometimes got some colour shifts with AWB outdoors and suggested that owners should use one of the preset colour balances. The vivid mode might be making it more visible though. Vivid mode is certainly the problem

When takinga series of photos to be stitched together, you mustset the white balance manually to one of the modes, and youmust set your exposure manuallyso that it's constant. Exposure was locked at the 1st frame Using "P" modewill give you sufficientdifferences in exposure that will show up on the final stitched photo. This doesn't follow if the exposure has been locked I assume you locked the exposure using the AE Lock?
I'm sure your camera has a "stitch-assist" or "panorama" mode? That mode will allow you to use"P" or other exposure modes, and itshould lock the white balance and exposure on the first picture in a series... your manual should have details on this. Not on the A200 unless it's well hidden I was wrong about this, sorry.

The other suggestions I have is to avoid using the widest setting on the lens. Most lens, especially wide ratio zooms, will have noticeable barrel distortion at the widest setting and this couldcause some problems at the stitch borders. Try to overlap theimages by at least 30%.... and 50% is better...
Quote:
Hi Santos

Thanks for your input but as I mentioned in the threadI started the other day titled A200 Panoramic Mode http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...mp;forum_id=20I used Vivid Colour Mode and it worked - presumably because the lighting was flat due the dull & overcast conditions.

On the next occasion that I repeated the process, the lighting was brighter with a lot of haze about. Those were the shots that produced the difference in colour between adjacent shots.

The exposure was locked on the first shot and the sequenced panned canceling the exposure lock on the final shot. You should verify that it remains locked for the sequence. This is a really nice feature on the A200. On my camera, the AE Lock only works on one exposure. I have to reset it each timeif I want AE Lock for subsequent exposures, so I usually go to Manual exposure if I need this.


I've since taken a sequence of shots using VIVID + Auto White Balance, NATURAL + Auto White Balance and NATURAL + Daylight Balance using UV Filter, Skylight Filter & No Filter.

In every instance that VIVID was used it resulted in a difference between adjacent shots in the panned sequence. As I understood it, VIVID is a boost to the greens and blues, and it should be consistent..sounds like a glitch

In every instance where NATURAL & Auto White Balance was used the adjacent image colour rendition was correct.

However, not all shots using NATURAL & White Balance set to Daylight worked well. I would have expected the opposite for the two settings you mention above.. ?

I have therefore concluded that Vivid Colour Mode should be avoided for sequencial shots which are to be used to create a panoramic view.

That aside, I'm still left with a number of individual shots taken in Vivid Colour Mode in which 2 in the sequence showed sever colour difference almost identical to the situation above for which I have yet to find a logical explanation.

I have forwarded this to technical services at Minolta for their comment and will repeat back here on their reply. It sounds like VIVID mode is somehow interfering with white balance. You haven't had your camera very long, I'd be tempted to bring it back to the store, along with some of your prints showing the problems,and ask them to replace it with another A200. Good luck with this..
Quote:
regards...Santos
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Old Feb 10, 2005, 11:27 AM   #9
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In response to my query, Minolta have advised me that they are performing like tests on the camera & suggested that mine is defective & should be returned to them for analysis.

I'm afraid that it's going back to the store tomorrow.

Here's a shot that I took the other day with Colour Balance set to Natural which produces an acceptable level of consistency across the 4 images stitched together to produce the panoramic view - it was relatively bright with misty patches across The Solent.

Original Size - 7662x2226 reduce to 1000x291 for publishing here
Resolution - ExtraFine
ExposureTime - 1/250 seconds
FNumber - 5
ExposureProgram - Normal program
ISOSpeedRatings - 50
ExposureMode - Auto
WhiteBalance - Auto
Contrast - Normal
Saturation - Normal
Sharpness - Normal
SubjectDistanceRange - Distant View

and post processed using Photoshop using UnSharpMask & level adjustment to increase the brightness.


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