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Old May 7, 2005, 12:18 AM   #1
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Hello


Ok. I bought the a A200 and I love it , but I did not think my life will get more compacted when it comes to producing prints of digital photography.
I now read , that the photographs need to be sharpened on order to get it right .
I can easily see that the sharpening is depended on the print size.
If I want to print 10cmX15cm I need a different sharpening then when I go for 20cmX30cm or 100cmX70cm .

I also read that you need to sharpen once before resizing , and one after resizing?http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/u...harpening.mspx
What?

I can even guess that if I shoot with different resolution then the 8megapixel I need to make a different sharpening.

My head hearts :-(

I shut a few hundred photos already.

Isn't there a way of putting in somewhere the size of the print I want and the camera model I used , and get the right sharpening with the push of a button?

Please help me, because as for now my photos look way to soft , and only look good if I look at them starched to their fool size on the pc screen.


Thanks
Erez


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Old May 7, 2005, 2:06 AM   #2
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I don't sharpen any of my pictures and they are perfectly ok... You don't need to sharpen anything just because some website says that.

But if you insist... Any sharpening will also reveal noise (as sharpening is mostly based on increasing contrast at particular frequency) so I suggest to use noise removing software to sharpen and de-noise your pictures at the same time... Noise Ninja, Neat image, Noiseware profesional... all can be used as plug ins for Photoshop ar as stand alone programs... or use Photoshop unsharp mask.

I am afraid that 70x100 cm is too much to get photo quality from close up.
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Old May 7, 2005, 2:12 AM   #3
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As far as web pictures are concerned... use Photoshop. You can automate many procedures but you still have to judge if any sharpening is appropriate yourself... I use standard sharpen command for web pictures... but always fade shapening effect by 50-60%
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Old May 7, 2005, 4:16 AM   #4
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Grayart,

Its not clear if you have actually printed any shots yet? As maros says, don't worry too much about general web info, have a go first.

Iuse a coupleof EPSON printers at home and if I print with photo enhance, that auto sharpens (so I have to be careful not to sharpen first). However, if I use a photo outlet or other printer settings to do the print they come out closer to what I see on the camera. So it depends a lot on the printer.

Practically, I don't sharpen too many shots, I prefer the lack of sharpening artifacts. I use dimage viewer set tolow frequency to3 and contrast about 0.7 when I do. If you want to sharpen then Raw may be a better starting point.

If you still feel your images are too soft, another approach is to set sharpening to hard in the camera anyway.

By the way, I think you can get a decent 100cm. I have printed off a few 1/3 crops (or smaller)on to A4 (30cm) and they still come outpretty sharp. But as has been mentioned, not true photo quality as you can only get around 100dpi, which is a bit low.
I would try and shoot at high speed though - this helps keep things sharp (even with a good Anti Shake).

Hope this helps.
Steve
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Old May 8, 2005, 3:02 AM   #5
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stk wrote:
Quote:
Its not clear if you have actually printed any shots yet? As maros says, don't worry too much about general web info, have a go first.
maros wrote:

Quote:
I don't sharpen any of my pictures and they are perfectly ok... You don't need to sharpen anything just because some website says that.







I still have not made any prints of my shots , the camera came with a coupon for 36 free prints so I intend to use them as "test strips" for my prints.
BTW: i don't intend to print my photos at home , but to use the services of a professional "photo-shop" , "print-shop". those that you give them the digital film and get prints , just like on normal film.

when I read about the camera before buying it , it said that the photos of this camera are soft , but that you can easily sharpen photos but can't reverse a photo that comes out of the camera too sharpened like in other cameras.



Anyway , not all the photos I take are soft , but sometimes there is a photo that just need to be sharpened like in this crop .


style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #666666".




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Old May 9, 2005, 2:13 AM   #6
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Just to add a little to the good replies you have already had:

If I use sharpening it comes as the very last thing I do before using or displaying the image. So do all your adjustments, re-sizing etc first.

I am not keen on using sharpening to try to make up for the fact that I got the focussing wrong in the first place, though I'm sure it's handy for this. I feel that it's best used to enhance a shot which is already good.

Finally, as others have suggested, 'sharpening' is very subjective, there are no general'rules' as such though I would suggest that it is kept well below the level at which it becomesobvious that it has been used. Many reputable magazines overdo it to the point where they destroy good images.

Frank
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Old May 9, 2005, 4:15 AM   #7
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While I think the advice you have been given so far is very good, I thought you may like to see what can be achieved. As Frank andothers havesaid, sharpening is very subjective. What I like, you may not, others may not. So bear this in mind and play with the settings till you see what you like.

The first one is the one you posted, untouched. The second is with just a levels adjustment, which I think already improves the image. Finally a version with levels adjustment, run through Noise Ninja, then Unsharp Mask with an amount of 120% and radius set to 4.5 pixels. As I said, you may not like the end result, I'm not suggesting this is the best look, you have to play with it yourself to see.

Stevekin.


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Old May 9, 2005, 6:35 AM   #8
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wow that's so cool.

i would take even something between pic 2 and 3...

anyway…

after I read the article in Microsoft site , especially what they wrote there...:





----------------------------------------------------------------
"Why Sharpening is Necessary
In a digital camera workflow, sharpening compensates for two things:








Detail blurred by the low-pass filter. Virtually all digital cameras, from SLR to point-and-shoot, contain an optical filter in front of the image sensor. Called a low-pass filter, it improves image quality in several important ways, but in the process blurs image detail slightly. This softness can, and should, be compensated for. "

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------




with this low-pass filter ... (does normal film camera have this filter too they did not say)

I thought there is a mandatory step for handling digital camera photos.

but..

Now I understand it is subjective , and not a must…



So first let me say ,

thank you for clearing that.



And secondly , I will for now use the settings of the camera as they are, and after I will get more experienced I will add more visual vocabulary to my photo processing.

For now , getting the hang on the camera functions itself is a tough nut to crack , even understanding the manual is hard enough , (English is a second language to me , and with the camera came only a translation of about third of the English version of the manual).



thanks

Erez
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Old May 9, 2005, 10:01 PM   #9
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greyart - (and others)

Here is what I did using only the enhance feature in iPhoto 5 (Mac OSX). I think it looks pretty good here, too.

BTW, our Mac group did a camera comparison at a meeting recently, taking the same shot using a variety of different cameras and then they were all 'processed' the same way...printed directly from the memory card, run through Photoshop Elements with and without the smart fix (NOT good...universally gave garish results!), Film Factory which came with the Epson printer (same printer used for all prints) and from iPhoto. Comparing them all to the real thing, the best colors came from either printing directly from the memory card or from iPhoto. My A200 did quite well with most of the tests...but even the smart fix made things too bright blue!

Barb

Later: The more I look at this pix, besides the kitties themselves being 'soft' (as most kitties are! ;-) ) I think part of the softness you may be seeing here is because you were trying to shoot a moving target...perhaps if you had been on Sport mode it would have been sharper without processing (except for colors). Just a thought!
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Old May 9, 2005, 10:27 PM   #10
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Grayart;

If you are planning on printing only by a print lab, the best thing for you to do is to try out the prints just as they are made by the camera. You may find the results to be just fine. This is because the printer reiles on having the Print Image Matching data, which is included in the EXIF from the camera. If you edit the pictures, the editing software destroys the PIM data, and changes the EXIF. This seems to be a cause of a number of problems for people who 'improve' their pictures before printing. If you print at home, you can compensate, but the labs use automatic equipment. I would recommend editing the pictures only if you don't get satisfactory results.

brian
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