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Old Mar 5, 2003, 3:58 AM   #1
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Default 7i: Flash exposure compensation

Hi all,

I'm using the HS5600, and am wondering the following:

The manuals state that with the 7i, you can balance ambient and flashlight the following ways:

1. the "normal" exposure adjustment way: press the -+ button on the left of the cam, rotate the wheel.

2. The flash intensity, by holding the same button, but then then using the UP and DOWN arrows on the navigation pad on the back of the cam.

This works (up to a level), it shows (for example), -1 for the 'normal' compensation (aperture/shutterspeed), and (again, example) -0.5 with a little flash icon next to it.

Now here's my experience:

Both work (resulting image becomes dimmer or brighter depending on -+ settings), BUT:

- When using flash compensation, the flash is dimmed... (okido, so far so good)
- When using 'normal' compensation, the flash is ALSO dimmed, and no change in aperture (or shutterspeed).

Thus, both methods employ the same end-result (only affecting flash intensity, not shutter / aperture).

Why is this?? (Tried with 5600, both wireless, on-cam, and internal flash only, P, A, S modes).

I think (and understand from the manual), that the shutterspeed should be affected by the 'normal' compensation (to control abient light picked up), and that ONLY the flash compensation should affect the flash intensity.

But no such thing, always 1/60.... never a change in aperture. What gives? Is this a bug in the 7i's software? Or am I missing something.

Additionally, I also see no difference whatsoever when using wireless flash between 'normal' wireless, or 2:1 or 2:1 ratio flash results (yes, subject is well within range of on-board flash). Or does ratioflash only work when also having a 2nd 5600 on-cam?

Why (or how if it can be done), cant we just select both on-board and remote flash intensity from a menu (just like 'normal' on-board flash intensity). Seems like where stuck with 'fill flash' only the second you choose 'wireless'.

Since the camera is sending the signals, how could the camera possibly know about the ratioflash setting on the 5600?

Again, I'm a bit in the dark now. I used all of the above for some time with varying succes, assuming it all would 'just-work-as-advertised'. But now, experimenting and inspecting results closely, I find hardly anything seems to give the effect the manuals say.

Any help would be highly apreciated.
thanks in advance
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Old Mar 5, 2003, 6:37 AM   #2
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Quote:
Additionally, I also see no difference whatsoever when using wireless flash between 'normal' wireless, or 2:1 or 2:1 ratio flash results (yes, subject is well within range of on-board flash). Or does ratioflash only work when also having a 2nd 5600 on-cam?
The ratio is a feature for multiple flashes ie the main highlighted flash can put out more power(full) than the others filling in (1/2 power).

As for the flash compensation I would suspect that if you lower the shutter speed to speeds slower than 1/60 and let in more ambient light. You see more effect on the flash compensation than with just the exposure compensation only...
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Old Mar 6, 2003, 12:16 AM   #3
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Default Re: 7i: Flash exposure compensation

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Originally Posted by fotograafdigi
Hi all,
I think (and understand from the manual), that the shutterspeed should be affected by the 'normal' compensation (to control abient light picked up), and that ONLY the flash compensation should affect the flash intensity.
Actually, since the flash duration is aroung 1/20,000 second, the shutter speed will have very little effect on the exposure with the flash. Adjusting the aperture or flash power is the way to change the exposure with flashes.

For the Dimage 7i, regular exposure compensation will alter the shutter speed in fill flash situations - if the metered ambient light shutter speed adjusted for exposure compensation is faster than the flash shutter speed for that focal length, it is used instead of the flash shutter speed (which is from 1/45 to 1/180 depending on focal length). When the ambient light speed is slower than the flash shutter speed, the flash speed is used and the exposure compensation is used to adjust the flash power.
(It may actually be more complex than that, but that was the result of a couple of minutes of experimentation to determine what happens.)
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Old Mar 6, 2003, 6:23 AM   #4
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In short:

Exposure compensation will affect the whole picture.

Flash compensation will alter the balance between flash/ambient light, provided there's enough ambient light for the current AV value (ie if it's too dark, then there's no ambient light contribution).

Try to experiment in brighter scenes like during daylight under the shade of a tree, where both ambient light and flash intensity can be modulated... 8) 8) 8)

Quote:
- When using 'normal' compensation, the flash is ALSO dimmed, and no change in aperture (or shutterspeed).
because it's too dark just like Abredon has pointed out... The flash compensation is almost similar to the 2:1 or 1:2 ratio effect above where instead of two flashes, one source is the flash, and the other is the ambient light.
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Old Mar 6, 2003, 8:02 AM   #5
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Default Thanks for the replies, but more questions

Thanks all for the replies.


That the ambient light was to low to see the effect is now my prime suspect of not seeing it in my experiments. Will take a day or 2 before I have time to retry during daylight hours.

MUCH disappointment that the ratioflashing doesnt work when using the onboard flash with just 1 5600 wireless. Might be me, but I dont think thats in the manuals very clear. A real bummer.

I wanted to use it for head + shoulder portraits, and there, the output of the onboard flash should be sufficient to provide 1/2 the power of the main flash on the lowest setting.

Another thing I noticed that automatic flash-power has a much wider range then selecting manual power on the 5600.

Am I understanding it correctly that it is NOT possible to have the on-board flash also flash together with single wireless 5600??????? That would be a major bummer. What I want is to use the 5600 as main light source, using the onboard flash to fill-in the shadows a bit. Not possible?

When I put it (wireless mode, 5600 in manual mode), 4 feet from subject (knowing that is very close), at 1/32, at F8, the image is still blown out mostly. When using pre-flash instead of manual 1/32, the image is okay.

Thus, am I right in concluding that when pre-flash metering by the camera, the cam can signal the flash to go (way) below 1/32 power.

So if im right, i need ANOTHER flash??? just because theres no way to have the onboard flash fire simultainously with the 5600 in wireless mode???

Grrrr........ (starting to think changing to a D10 and studio strobes for the same amout of money that got me the 7i + 5600......)

Anyhow, make me happy, tell me it IS possible to have the onboard flash fire together with the 5600..... (and I mean for the exposure, not just the signal-transmission flashes!).

Thx in advance for all the help guys
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Old Mar 6, 2003, 8:32 AM   #6
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fotograafdigi
Just like to add : you can also add neutral density filter if the flash manual settings can't go low. I sometimes need to do so for macros.
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Old Mar 6, 2003, 8:33 AM   #7
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Quote:
Anyhow, make me happy, tell me it IS possible to have the onboard flash fire together with the 5600..... (and I mean for the exposure, not just the signal-transmission flashes!)
You're out of luck here (page 88 of manual). Even though in older film cameras the Minolta built-in flash can also contribute to the lighting. You'll need two: a 3600HS or a 5600HS mounted on the D7i's hotshoe will contribute to the lighting, with a second or multiple, off-camera units. BTW only the 5600HS offers ratio control (or get the Sigma at the cost of the 3600, but with features of the 5600 :lol: )


Quote:
Grrrr........ (starting to think changing to a D10 and studio strobes for the same amout of money that got me the 7i + 5600......)
I agree, but it's not a fair comparison. You forgot the lens for the D10! plus the D7i can also use studio strobes which is what I use with the built-in flash as trigger set at lower levels... You'll need to add two Canon wireless flashes for the same set-up which are not inexpensive either :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Old Mar 6, 2003, 9:10 AM   #8
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Default Thanx for the help!

Hmm okay. Indeen, page 88 sees it all. Just like they say:

"re-read the manual, you'll be surprised how much the've added."

LOL.

Anyhow, thanks for the info. Still bummer though. But i'll think i'll opt for a 2 light studio setup, the 5600 can then function as (one heck of an expensive) fill, or 3rd light.

anyhow, thanks
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