Steve'sDigicams

epdm · Jul 9, 2004, 7:45 PM

So Again we have a camera which is good but just lacks that single feature that would have made it it great.

Oh dear. Ifinally gotrid of my HP Photosmart 850 (primary reason because its autofocus is way too slow and it has no manual focus) intended to get the Photosmart 945 which has the much wanted manual focus. And got attracted by this kyocera.

I thought: 10x zoom, full frame video at 30fps,suposedly fast startup and shooting times, uses regular batteries. Well if it has manual focus then there's no hesitation and what do i see... yes indeed... no manual focus nor any full manual exposure (don't call shutterpriority or apperture priority manual exposure modes).

:-(

It's probably something which can be fixed in with a prospective firmware update but knowing how eager those japanese firms are to update their stuff. Even HP sucks at this forcing ppl to buy anothercamera if they wanted just manual focus. This is very stupid since most don't even require the higher 5Mpixel count of that 945 , they just want manual exposure/focus on the 4mpixel model.

I fear a similar story here. It's all too dejavu here.

Oh BTW. Why can't Canon make camera's with proper viewfinders.Some of their camera's realy are interesting except for that ridiculous tunnelviewfinder. Which is their letdown for me.

So a plea to all those manufacturors.

To Canon: please ditch that tunnelviewfinder onthe G and A models

to Kyocera: please get manual focus and manual exposure control on that M410R

To HP: Same as Kyocera but for the photosmart850 model.

And to Fuji and Olympus: DON'T make the same mistake as Sony with their proprietary Memory Stick (which is maybe fine in Japan but the rest o/t world WANTS standards like CF or SD, andSony has obviously learned the hard wayfrom this loosing it's entire PDA-range) So DITCH that xD card make it SD! And then your camera's get my attention too.

TC3 · Jul 10, 2004, 4:08 AM

Good post and it says what a lot of us are probably thinking

TC3 · Jul 11, 2004, 9:37 AM

changsha wrote:

Quote:

Very disappointed.

Under exposes and the flash is far to bright.

Exchanging for C765

I went on site yesterday to a school my firm have designed and i did notice that a lot of the shots were over exposed with the flash....the rooms have bright walls....anyway i took some pics with an iso 100 and -.3ev and those shots were spot on. Tried again this morning at home and it looks like i will be taking future pics with flash at the same setting.

stez · Jul 11, 2004, 6:28 PM

Add AF-assist to that plea...

TC3 · Jul 12, 2004, 3:57 AM

The M410R is fairly priced and adding other features will no doubt push the price up. I would never have got the camera in the instance as this is the camera i have bought to use while i await Pentax to bring out their new cheaper SLR. I think you guys that want this and that should look elsewhere and hopefully find the camera for you

epdm · Jul 12, 2004, 4:23 AM

I wouldn't mind paying 60 to 100 euros more for that camera if it had manual exposure control and manual focus ability. Though I'm reluctant to spend more than 1000 euros for a digicam (like the Sony F8xx-series), 500 or 600 euros is a good bet.

I also believe this is the threshold for many prospective buyers. Especially the ones whom got some previous experience with digicams. Now I understand that trade-offs have to be made technicallywise for a product to become good value. So in that respect I'm fully aware that a small aperture lens like the one on the M410R won't have a shallow dept of field as e.g. the Panasonic FZ10. But the things we are talking about can be implemented purely in firmware and therefore I fail to see the point of a very much increased pricetag. Meaning I can't expect a fictious"M410R pro" with manual focus to cost twice as much as the regular model.

Anyway. To T3; I am looking elsewere but then it appears that there's a gap between a 400 euro camera (which just hasn't got that one feature you'd like) or that 1000 euros camera which has everything you want (even some higher pixelcount which you probably don't need anyway). That's the problem. Those manufacturors "claim" that they follow market demands but in fact they DON'T listen to the market or their customers, they just force upon us their newer models.

Regards,

EPDM

TC3 · Jul 12, 2004, 5:56 AM

I agree that there is a gap in the market and the big companies should try and fill that gap....the first to do so is gonna have a big hit on their hands!

changsha · Jul 14, 2004, 9:13 AM

Hi

Just rvd Olympus 765 and I am afraid it blows the 410 out of the water!!

Simply stunning

TC3 · Jul 14, 2004, 9:25 AM

Glad you got what you wanted. Am keeping mine as it suits my needs perfectlyand is a gem. Maybe i should joinyour childish way by saying "my camera is better then yours":roll:

davisdog · Jul 14, 2004, 11:29 AM

yup...posts like that crack me up...especially when they post no reasons or facts.

I own neither (but have looked at both)...and as far as I can tell the M410R blows away the C765 in speed (Startup, shot-shot, shutterlag etc...)...Also the M410R has superior LCD and EVF...both of those are key features (at least for me).

both are 10x, similar size and similar features. Sure the M410 lacks some manual controls so you need to prioritize that, but it has a hotshoe etc...

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Jul 9, 2004, 7:45 PM	#11
epdm Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2	So Again we have a camera which is good but just lacks that single feature that would have made it it great. Oh dear. Ifinally gotrid of my HP Photosmart 850 (primary reason because its autofocus is way too slow and it has no manual focus) intended to get the Photosmart 945 which has the much wanted manual focus. And got attracted by this kyocera. I thought: 10x zoom, full frame video at 30fps,suposedly fast startup and shooting times, uses regular batteries. Well if it has manual focus then there's no hesitation and what do i see... yes indeed... no manual focus nor any full manual exposure (don't call shutterpriority or apperture priority manual exposure modes). :-( It's probably something which can be fixed in with a prospective firmware update but knowing how eager those japanese firms are to update their stuff. Even HP sucks at this forcing ppl to buy anothercamera if they wanted just manual focus. This is very stupid since most don't even require the higher 5Mpixel count of that 945 , they just want manual exposure/focus on the 4mpixel model. I fear a similar story here. It's all too dejavu here. Oh BTW. Why can't Canon make camera's with proper viewfinders.Some of their camera's realy are interesting except for that ridiculous tunnelviewfinder. Which is their letdown for me. So a plea to all those manufacturors. To Canon: please ditch that tunnelviewfinder onthe G and A models to Kyocera: please get manual focus and manual exposure control on that M410R To HP: Same as Kyocera but for the photosmart850 model. And to Fuji and Olympus: DON'T make the same mistake as Sony with their proprietary Memory Stick (which is maybe fine in Japan but the rest o/t world WANTS standards like CF or SD, andSony has obviously learned the hard wayfrom this loosing it's entire PDA-range) So DITCH that xD card make it SD! And then your camera's get my attention too.

Jul 10, 2004, 4:08 AM	#12
TC3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,169	Good post and it says what a lot of us are probably thinking

Jul 11, 2004, 6:28 PM	#14
stez Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 49	Add AF-assist to that plea...

Jul 12, 2004, 3:57 AM	#15
TC3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,169	The M410R is fairly priced and adding other features will no doubt push the price up. I would never have got the camera in the instance as this is the camera i have bought to use while i await Pentax to bring out their new cheaper SLR. I think you guys that want this and that should look elsewhere and hopefully find the camera for you

Jul 12, 2004, 4:23 AM	#16
epdm Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 2	I wouldn't mind paying 60 to 100 euros more for that camera if it had manual exposure control and manual focus ability. Though I'm reluctant to spend more than 1000 euros for a digicam (like the Sony F8xx-series), 500 or 600 euros is a good bet. I also believe this is the threshold for many prospective buyers. Especially the ones whom got some previous experience with digicams. Now I understand that trade-offs have to be made technicallywise for a product to become good value. So in that respect I'm fully aware that a small aperture lens like the one on the M410R won't have a shallow dept of field as e.g. the Panasonic FZ10. But the things we are talking about can be implemented purely in firmware and therefore I fail to see the point of a very much increased pricetag. Meaning I can't expect a fictious"M410R pro" with manual focus to cost twice as much as the regular model. Anyway. To T3; I am looking elsewere but then it appears that there's a gap between a 400 euro camera (which just hasn't got that one feature you'd like) or that 1000 euros camera which has everything you want (even some higher pixelcount which you probably don't need anyway). That's the problem. Those manufacturors "claim" that they follow market demands but in fact they DON'T listen to the market or their customers, they just force upon us their newer models. Regards, EPDM

Jul 12, 2004, 5:56 AM	#17
TC3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,169	I agree that there is a gap in the market and the big companies should try and fill that gap....the first to do so is gonna have a big hit on their hands!

Jul 14, 2004, 9:13 AM	#18
changsha Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 6	Hi Just rvd Olympus 765 and I am afraid it blows the 410 out of the water!! Simply stunning

Jul 14, 2004, 9:25 AM	#19
TC3 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 1,169	Glad you got what you wanted. Am keeping mine as it suits my needs perfectlyand is a gem. Maybe i should joinyour childish way by saying "my camera is better then yours":roll:

Jul 14, 2004, 11:29 AM	#20
davisdog Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2004 Posts: 2	yup...posts like that crack me up...especially when they post no reasons or facts. I own neither (but have looked at both)...and as far as I can tell the M410R blows away the C765 in speed (Startup, shot-shot, shutterlag etc...)...Also the M410R has superior LCD and EVF...both of those are key features (at least for me). both are 10x, similar size and similar features. Sure the M410 lacks some manual controls so you need to prioritize that, but it has a hotshoe etc...