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Old Nov 22, 2004, 11:11 AM   #1
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hi all again

i am currently in discussion with kyocera about swapping out my camera again due to hot and stuck pixels. i have 2 badly stuck ones and on a 4 second (i think) exposure at night i have seen plently of hot pixels all over. i cant post any as i am at work at the mo.

does anyone have a 4 or 8 second exposure photo that is free of these or available for me to compare.

can anyone take a photo with the lense cap on too and see if there are any hot/stuck pixels too.

let me know if you want my email addy to send unfidled ones.

Thanks

Steve
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Old Nov 23, 2004, 8:36 AM   #2
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Hi Steve

I've just taken an 8sec @ 2.8 .... there is noise ...but is the amount acceptable ....I don't know.

If you want the 300KB file ....email me ... it's my full name with no space @blueyonder.co.uk ..... i'll reply back with attached.

Cheers KK


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Old Nov 23, 2004, 9:15 AM   #3
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email on its way kk!
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Old Nov 23, 2004, 9:52 AM   #4
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Hot Pixels on longer exposures are normal for your model. It does not have a dark frame subtraction noise reduction system.

Many newer models do have this type of system. This type of system actually takes 2 photos on longer exposures. Basically, one image simulates having the lens cap on. That way, the camera knows where to find the hot pixels in the actual exposure. It then replaces the hot pixels with values interpolated from adjacent pixels.

The Kyocera M410R does not employ a dark frame noise reduction system. So, you will have hot pixels on longer exposures.

If you don't have any on typical (1/30 second or faster) exposures, then the manufacturer is probably not going to replace it (and the replacement could be worse). See my post in this thread for a longer explanation of how this type of system works on cameras that are equipped with it:

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...mp;forum_id=28

Now, there are some software packages that will do the same thing for you. You can take a lens cap on exposure at the same settings you use for the actual exposure first. Then, the software can use dark frame noise reduction to compare the two frames later and map out the hot pixels.

See the results in this search for more information on doing dark frame subtraction:

http://www.google.com/search?q=dark-...ge+subtraction


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Old Nov 23, 2004, 10:13 AM   #5
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i cant quite remember what i put.....:?

something like......

i was expecting a bit of noise on the long exposure photo's but not quite as much and as vaired as it was. which is why i was asking for a comparative photo or 2.

i do have 2 areas that are continuous regardles of the speed of the shutter. these are what i am in discussion with kyocera about. i do realise at this feature level for the given price point there will be some short comings... however having seen other peoples results mine seem far worse.

kk kindly provided a lens on shot with a small amount of noise but nothing spectacular. i'd be far happier with that than what i have at the moment.

its not that i am unhappy with the camera its such a huge leap from the s4, good as it was, it just wasnt fast enough, so i just want to get the last few gremlins out of the works and i'll be happy as a happy thing!



heres a resized example of what i was talking about!
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Old Nov 23, 2004, 3:31 PM   #6
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You are THE man, JimC

Spot-onlink to your excellent previous message.

Steve's M410R camera does seem a heck of a lot noisier than my M410R!

BFN KK
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Old Nov 23, 2004, 3:44 PM   #7
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5teve wrote:
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i do have 2 areas that are continuous regardles of the speed of the shutter. these are what i am in discussion with kyocera about.
Hot Pixels are normal for longer exposures without any Dark Frame Subtraction Noise Reduction System.

However, if you have pixels that are always hot (even at 1/30 second or faster), then I'd get them to repair or replace it (these are then called stuck pixels).

If that's the case, (always hot, even at faster shutter speeds), you may want to include printed crops of the images, along with images on CD,just to make sure they'll see what you're talking about.

If you want to find out more information about hot pixels with your model,run this test at different shutter speeds:

http://www.starzen.com/imaging/deadpixeltest.htm


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Old Nov 23, 2004, 5:01 PM   #8
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Steve that night pic i took in the 2settings" thread you started was a 4 sec shot and i didnt notice any hot pixels. Just took a pic with the lens cap on and again no hot pixels

Sorry to say this Steve but that pic you posted looks awful and it might be a good idea getting the camera back to them as never mind how much enlarged my night pics i could not find a single hot pixel, but of course there is acceptable noise


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Old Nov 23, 2004, 5:27 PM   #9
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i did the test Jim posted and didnt get one hot or dead pixel so i guess mine is ok
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Old Nov 23, 2004, 5:46 PM   #10
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bugger

i've just done a huge post and my internet connection crapped out! so i lost the post

basically i have done the tests with all sorts of shutter speed and all sorts of iso

the gist is

1/125 at iso 100 / 200 seems to give 4 hot pixels

then nothing until about a 1/3 which gives 16 at iso 100 an 30 at iso 200

it gets much worse on iso 200 upto over 50 on a 1 second shot.

8 second at iso 100 gives 42

these were at default thresholds.

sorry for it being a bit vague... i didnt want to type the whole lot over again!

i really need to find out why its dropping the connection.

Thanks for your info guys.... best get on kycoceras back really!

steve
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