Steve's Digicams Forums

Steve's Digicams Forums (https://forums.steves-digicams.com/)
-   Memory Cards, Microdrives, Card Readers (https://forums.steves-digicams.com/memory-cards-microdrives-card-readers-51/)
-   -   Rio Carbon Player - Seagate 5GB Microdrive (https://forums.steves-digicams.com/memory-cards-microdrives-card-readers-51/rio-carbon-player-seagate-5gb-microdrive-34657/)

steve Sep 29, 2004 11:28 PM

I got my Rio Carbon MP3 player today and of course I wasted no time in taking it apart to extract the Seagate ST1 5GB drive from within. The most difficult part was getting the darn Rio Carbon player out its bullet-proof retail plastic packaging - it could thwart terrorists let alone thieves :O

Unlike the Creative Labs Muvo2 player, the Rio Carbon's case is not held together with screws - it is strictly creative engineering using four inner clips. If you're careful you can open it up without damaging the player and can re-use it with a smaller Microdrive -- or if you were one of those that bought the iPod Mini to get the Hitachi 4GB Microdrive and then found out that it won't work in a camera - it does work in the Rio Carbon (at least I have been told that it does anyway.)

The Seagate ST1 worked fine in a Canon G6 -after- being formatted in the camera. When first inserted it did display a "Card Error" and that had me worried but a quick FORMAT solved the problem and the drive works fine.

I bought the Rio Carbon from Amazon.com for $224 and got it within a week from placing the order even though it wasn't showing as being "in stock" yet.

Cautionary Note from Seagate:

"The Seagate hard drive inside these players was manufactured and qualified for use specifically in these music player applications. It is not designed to be removed from the music player, and removing the drive voids the warranty on the music player and on the hard drive.

Also important to note: because these drives weren't designed or tested for uses external to the music players, they may not operate correctly (either short-term or long-term) in other applications.

To date, Seagate has not completed the design and testing of, and has not made available, a 1-inch hard drive for use by consumers in CompactFlash slots.

Seagate is working on a consumer version of its 1-inch CompactFlash Type II hard drive, the "Seagate CompactFlash Photo Hard Drive," that will be priced very attractively for the mainstream photography market. Seagate announced this drive in June 2004. We'll have more news regarding a launch date later in the holiday season.

Best to you and to everyone at Steve's,"

John Paulsen
Sr. Manager, Corporate Communications
Seagate Technology



NHL Sep 30, 2004 9:30 AM

From the few posts that I've seen it looks like this drive is not as fast as the Hitachi... With the Lexar 1G (x40) going for about ~$60-70 lately is it worth the effort though? ;)

Rumour has it that the Seagate will retail around $200, not as big an incentive as when the price was almost double for the Hitachi... :cry:

Sep 30, 2004 11:41 AM

I saw 2 versions of the Rio Carbon at Best Buy last week. The 5Gig version was about $249.00 & the 2.5 Gig was $149.00.

dragonx Oct 5, 2004 2:27 PM

Hi Steve, I've got the ST1 drive working with my Digital Rebel just great.

I'm wondering if you've ever tried putting the Carbon back together with other flash CF cards? It would be nice to have a big storage, shock resistant mp3 player.

However, so far none of the flash cards I've tried have worked. I figure you must have a bunch of cards, could you give it a shot and see if you can find any that do work?

All the ones I've tried will work when plugged into the USB, but once disconnected, they work fine for 10 seconds then reboot.

NHL Oct 5, 2004 9:34 PM

You need a CF device that can be configured as and IDE device...

There's a link on dpReview if I can find it -> the drive from the iPod for one and most microdrives (except for the older series) will work as well. Most CF flash cards will not do it for you, ie this Rio is built just like the iPod except for the Seagate ST-1 drive which can be configured as both CF and IDE devices ;)
http://shop.pexagontech.com/index.as...-5391DA8E0BBB}


Here's the link: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/re...ssage=10291574

steve Oct 5, 2004 10:08 PM

dragonx wrote:
Quote:

Hi Steve, I've got the ST1 drive working with my Digital Rebel just great.

I'm wondering if you've ever tried putting the Carbon back together with other flash CF cards? It would be nice to have a big storage, shock resistant mp3 player.


I put the Carbon back together with an OEM 4GB Hitachi microdrive and gave it to a friend. All I wanted was the Seagate drive - no interest in further experimenting, I went through that with the Muvo2 and we never found any flash card that worked.:cry:

NHL Oct 6, 2004 9:00 AM

FYI

The 'original' Muvo2 works with any CF cards (it was shipped with a 4G CF configured microdrive) - I tried several Sandisk and Lexar; However, at this moment I stuck my antique 340MB IBM microdrive in the Muvo2 while keeping the flash cards for the cameras...

sjms Oct 6, 2004 9:37 AM

J&R has the 4gb MD travel kit at $219 w/the $50 rebate that brings it down to ~$170 with the rather tiny 1 yr hitachi reliability warranty. that at least gives you a year get out jail free card for it.

NHL Oct 6, 2004 11:03 AM

Thank

I jumped on it except it's out of stock!
http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=3948722

:sad::sad::sad:

sjms Oct 6, 2004 11:11 AM

just order it it will eventually come. JR is good and won't charge until shipped. by the way really no one has them in stock at that price right now. just wait and it will come

Muddler Oct 12, 2004 6:25 PM

I see the J&R deal, and it looks pretty good. Aside from the possible out of stock issue, here are my arguments for picking up the Rio Carbon:

1) You can buy it for $240 from ritzcamera.com (no tax, no shipping charges) versus $220 for the smallerJ&R microdrive (plus a few bucks in shipping with J&R). Now, I know there is also a $50 rebate for the J&R purchased microdrive, so each of you has to weigh waiting 6-8 weeks to maybe get back the 50. If you are like me, you'd probably forget to send in the rebate anyway.

2) The obvious: You get an additional 1 Gig. memory with the Seagate/Rio Carbon drive

3) Seagate has built in special systems to reduce shock-related issues ("Run On" technology they call it)- both buffering for writing and protection for when the drive is not in use. I am not sure the microdrive from Hitachi has similar technology. They certainly don't advertise it. I do note that the Seagate drive has a 2MB cache buffer while the Hitachi advertises only a 128KB buffer.

That said, I could see going either way. I picked up the Rio about a week ago and ripped it open. There was no problem extracting the drive and I formatted it in fat32 for use in a digital rebel (note the Hitachi factory default is Fat16).It works wonderfully with the Rebel and with thenew Canon 20D.

I plan to pick up another 1-5Gig. card sometime in thefuture just to have aspare. Iam most concerned thatone day I will be on vacation and lose half the pictures due to a drive problem. That is the problem with such large drives. I'd like to find an easyway to dump the photos from time to time to avoid the problem.Treking around with a laptopjust to do picture dumps is not my idea of fun. Perhaps theupcoming 60Gig.iPod will be the answer ifit cancan be used todump pictures out of the card (or via the camera) without an additional computerinterface. Let us hope they have thought oftheissue.

Anyone else know of a good way to dumppictures on the road? Something small? Somethingrelatively inexpensive (few hundred bucks)?



steve Oct 16, 2004 1:16 PM

We recently reviewed the 20GB Photobank from Transcend, it's small:

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2004_...photobank.html

http://www.steves-digicams.com/image..._front_blk.jpg

And even more recently we reviewed the new 20GB Transcend Digital Album

http://www.steves-digicams.com/image..._front_blk.jpg


Papi Chulo Oct 25, 2004 11:35 AM

Help please i bought the Rio Carbon and took the drive out but i keep getting the card error even though i formatt the drive. i tried formatting it in the camera in the computer and it wont initialize. My camera is the fuji finpix s602zoom and it is on the list of acceptable cameras for the 5 gig drive. Does the camera accept drives that large? should i partition the drive to a 4 gig drive? I am really lost i thought you just pop it in and formatt it and you are good but its not so easy for me.

If anyone can help that has done it with a finpix 602zoom or just know whats going on please help:?

NHL Oct 25, 2004 8:51 PM

The Fuji S-602 is an older camera accepting only FAT-16, it may be compatible with the microdrives but 2G is its max!

-> you may try to use a PC to format the drive to FAT-16 first, but the default FAT-32 from the Rio will definitely not work on the S-602 zoom :(

Papi Chulo Oct 26, 2004 10:20 AM

Thanks for the help even though it was bad news Thanks allot for your help and knowledge

binnorm Nov 10, 2004 5:49 PM

Please help!!! more information about seagate micro drive.....

i got rio carbon mp3 player which is really cool, thanks. i wanna buy another seagate st1 5gb drive. i saw you mentioned about pocket hard drive, but i wonder i can extract drive and use for mydigital camera as well. once i bought muvo2 mp3 player but that hitachi micro drivewas not working, so i wanna get positive answer first. onemore thing, nowadays hitachi microdrive came out retail package with $50 rebate, but i don't know it works for digital camera.






mikeclemson Nov 15, 2004 7:56 AM

I just bought a 5GB Seagate that seems to have stopped working. It's from a Rio Carbon, but after a quick format (a standard format doesn't complete), I'm not able to write files to it from my PC to test it. What's the deal? Also, FAT32 compatible cameras such as the Coolpix 8700 and 8800 refuse to read it, saying something like "Cannot read card".

Any ideas?

Thanks,

Mike

NHL Nov 15, 2004 8:17 AM

binnorm wrote:
Quote:

Please help!!! more information about seagate micro drive.....

i got rio carbon mp3 player which is really cool, thanks. i wanna buy another seagate st1 5gb drive. i saw you mentioned about pocket hard drive, but i wonder i can extract drive and use for my digital camera as well. once i bought muvo2 mp3 player but that hitachi micro drive was not working, so i wanna get positive answer first. onemore thing, nowadays hitachi microdrive came out retail package with $50 rebate, but i don't know it works for digital camera.
The pocket hardrive uses a laptop (2.5") drive which is not the same size as the microdrive + plus their connector is slighly larger.

You can still use the extracted Rio microdrive in your camera and download the picture from this microdrive afterward to the pocket hardrive, augmenting your storage capacity... ;)

NHL Nov 15, 2004 8:21 AM

mikeclemson wrote:
Quote:

I just bought a 5GB Seagate that seems to have stopped working. It's from a Rio Carbon, but after a quick format (a standard format doesn't complete), I'm not able to write files to it from my PC to test it. What's the deal? Also, FAT32 compatible cameras such as the Coolpix 8700 and 8800 refuse to read it, saying something like "Cannot read card".

Any ideas?
Do you have access to a laptop?

The PC-card(PCMCIA) slot is the closest to an ATAPI IDE connector. I would try to format the microdrive this way and not go through a USB card reader which really have to go through several software layers.

steve Nov 15, 2004 11:05 AM

NHL wrote:
Quote:

binnorm wrote:
Quote:

Please help!!! more information about seagate micro drive.....

i got rio carbon mp3 player which is really cool, thanks. i wanna buy another seagate st1 5gb drive. i saw you mentioned about pocket hard drive, but i wonder i can extract drive and use for my digital camera as well. once i bought muvo2 mp3 player but that hitachi micro drive was not working, so i wanna get positive answer first. onemore thing, nowadays hitachi microdrive came out retail package with $50 rebate, but i don't know it works for digital camera.
The pocket hardrive uses a laptop (2.5") drive which is not the same size as the microdrive + plus their connector is slighly larger.

You can still use the extracted Rio microdrive in your camera and download the picture from this microdrive afterward to the pocket hardrive, augmenting your storage capacity... ;)
Quote:

Are you sure about this NHL? The Seagate USB 2.0 Pocket Hard Drive is supposed to contain the ST-1 drive according to my information ??
Quote:

Also guys - be sure to re-read my original message at the top of this thread as I have added a cautionary note from Seagate about the use of these ST-1 drives in any device other than what it originally came in.

NHL Nov 15, 2004 11:47 AM

Steve

You're correct, the poster didn't say Seagate hence I automatically assume it was just any pocket device... My wrong!

... let me put my dunce hat on and go to the corner :cry:

binnorm Nov 16, 2004 4:19 PM

seagate pocketdrive is come with 1" st-1 microdrive. my question is have you ever try to extract form seagate 5gb porketdriveand put into digital camera? then it work's ? I check seagate website, then seems like to work any handheld ,usb storage, and digital camera.

Chris Combs Nov 30, 2004 2:15 AM

binnorm wrote:
Quote:

seagate pocketdrive is come with 1" st-1 microdrive. my question is have you ever try to extract form seagate 5gb porketdrive and put into digital camera? then it work's ? I check seagate website, then seems like to work any handheld ,usb storage, and digital camera.
Yes, I have tried, and it is definitely NOT a CompactFlash-compatible MicroDrive. The 5GB drive inside the Pocket is the ATA variant of the ST-1 - meaning that it does NOT have CF pins, but a ribbon cable coming directly out of the drive package instead. Stick with the Carbon/Muvo.

Chris Combs Nov 30, 2004 2:58 AM

1 Attachment(s)
Here's an illustration from the tech specs for the ST-1: (The drive in the Pocket Drive appears to be the Flex, or ATA/IDE, variant.)


binnorm Dec 2, 2004 5:37 PM

thanks a lot. so i have to buy rio carbon.

sjms Dec 2, 2004 7:18 PM

before running out and destroying a RIO try this:

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...MP=OTC-17exta6

all it is is a 5gb ST1 in a ATA/USB2 housing. a little cheaper to rip apart i think.


Chris Combs Dec 3, 2004 12:30 AM

sjms wrote:
Quote:

before running out and destroying a RIO try this:

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...MP=OTC-17exta6

all it is is a 5gb ST1 in a ATA/USB2 housing. a little cheaper to rip apart i think.

Haha, knock yourself out, champ. :cool:

Madwand Dec 3, 2004 2:35 AM

I have a Seagate 5GB and a MUVO Hitachi 4GB microdrive. I'd recommend the Hitachi instead of the Seagate-- it's faster, and might also consume less power and be more reliable. Hitachi has recently reduced their prices, and you can find them retail for under $200.

E.g. http://shop.pexagontech.com/index.asp

steve Dec 3, 2004 11:20 AM

sjms wrote:
Quote:

before running out and destroying a RIO try this:

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...MP=OTC-17exta6

all it is is a 5gb ST1 in a ATA/USB2 housing. a little cheaper to rip apart i think.


The Seagate 5GB Pocket Hard Drive does not have the 5GB CF drive in it, it uses the 5GB Flexdrive which only has a ribbon cable - no CF connector and pins!

tkmckay Dec 14, 2004 11:11 PM

Madwand wrote:
Quote:

I have a Seagate 5GB and a MUVO Hitachi 4GB microdrive. I'd recommend the Hitachi instead of the Seagate-- it's faster, and might also consume less power and be more reliable. Hitachi has recently reduced their prices, and you can find them retail for under $200.

E.g. http://shop.pexagontech.com/index.asp
I recently readareview of the Seagate against both a 4gb Hitachi and GS Magicstor 2.2gb microdrives thatkinda showed the Seagate in the performance lead... although they weren't "in camera" tests....check it out over at X-bit labs for the review.:cool:

Achab Dec 16, 2004 7:42 PM

hi guys.
Thank you for the very useful thread.
I've undertood a bit more now, but my trouble remains.
I've buyed a microdrive st1 5gb and i've tryed to put it into either my ipaq as my canon 300d. Nothing, the flash card seems inexistent. I have put it in the my pcmcia adpter of my laptop and in a first time it seems to accept the card (found new hardware seagate st1) but after an error it disappear.
I have buyed it on ebay and i don't know how to solve the trouble. For my informations i should format it in FC mode but i don't know how to make it.:?:

dspanos Dec 28, 2004 11:06 PM

I'm having the same problem with my Digital Rebel. My girlfriend bought me the Seagate drive for Christmas off of eBay, and I've tried just about everything. I've tried both types of formatting, and also tried it in my girlfriends Canon s45 which is also supposed to accept microdrives. Not sure what else to do, and any help would be apreciated!

maiermm Jan 3, 2005 3:23 PM

I obtained the Seagate ST1 OEM version(from what I was told). It works fine in the Sony CyberShot F828 Camera without any problem. I was told that it worked in the Nikon D70 camera. I have the latest firmware, but it does not appear to acknowledge the Drive. They claim that this version of the firmware will support a drive to 8Gb on the camera in Fat32 format. Did anyone have to do anything special to get this drive to work in the D70. I remember reading a review that someone had it working in a Nikon D70, and the person that sent it claims it worked in their D70. Or do I have a bum D70.





steve Jan 3, 2005 4:14 PM

Just put the ST1 in my D70. It shows it can take1.4K Fine JPEG or 431 NEF raw. This D70 has latest firmware and the ST1 drive came out of the Rio Carbon player. I did not format the drive, it came out of operating MP3 player.

jjamesb Jan 12, 2005 3:56 AM

I believe I have figured out the issue, but would like conformation. The drives that appear to work properly are drives that do not have any information regarding the firmware that they have loaded. Firmware information can be found on the back of the card towards the bottom. It will list FW: 3.04 (example). If your card is missing this, then there is a good chance it will work as a Type II compact flash card should. If it does have the newer firmware, it is incompatable with Compact Flash IO, and can't be used in most digial cameras.

This theory comes from the 4 ST1's that I have had access to, and some further research in forums regarding the the ST1's reliablility and usablility as a CF/II. Once retail 1" drives are available it may be possible to get the firmware to load on these drives and use them once again as a Compact Flash Card, but as of right now I don't see any way to retrieve the firmware off of the drives that have the older firmware loaded, and get it to load on the new drive. Seagate's technical data gives no indication on how firmware can be verified, or flashed.

If people would please postif'A' theywere sucessful in using the card in the camera, and 'B' ifthe firmware waslisted, and which revision it is. I'llkeep my eye open for any new flashing utilities released by Seagate in the next couple of months.

--JJamesB

Chris Combs Jan 12, 2005 12:48 PM

A Rio Carbon drive with no listed firmware info works just fine in my D70. Here's the information printed on the drive:

SN: 3ME08RT9
P/N: 9AF212-001
Model: ST650211CF
Date: 05091

steve Jan 12, 2005 1:36 PM

FYI - the ST1 drive that I have does NOT have any firmware info on the back label.

jace Jan 13, 2005 10:47 AM

My Seagate ST1 has "FW: 3.04" and does NOT work.

OSX is able to identify it as a 4.7 GB drive, but can't format it: fails with an Input/Output error. Windows fails with an IOCTL error (both from the command line; GUI simply freezes).

I hope I can do something with this disk now. The Rio died when I was trying to put it back together. It refused to power on and kept getting hotter and hotter, until I cut the battery wires.

sjms Jan 13, 2005 11:23 AM

Chris Combs wrote:
Quote:

sjms wrote:
Quote:

before running out and destroying a RIO try this:

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproduc...MP=OTC-17exta6

all it is is a 5gb ST1 in a ATA/USB2 housing. a little cheaper to rip apart i think.

Haha, knock yourself out, champ. :cool:
gee if i only read what was just above dumb dumb dumb. i will now join the dunce corner.:?

steve Jan 13, 2005 11:30 AM

Sorry -- that is the Seagate Pocket Drive and it does not have the ST1 with the CF interface, it has a flexible cable interface. Maybe YOU should have read farther up the thread :blah:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 8:18 PM.