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Old Nov 11, 2007, 8:47 PM   #1
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I just bought a Fuji S8000fd along with a 2 GB M XD Fujifilm card. My old 3MP Fuji camera had a 128 MB card that I used a Lexar Media card reader to read the card. For some reason, it will not read my new M card. Have they changed them so the Lexar won't read it? I plug it in and nada..like it's not there. I would prefer to download straight from the card and not have to plug the camera into my PC. Do I need to buy a new reader too? Thanks for your time!
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Old Nov 13, 2007, 2:00 PM   #2
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You need a card reader that can handle Type M xD cards.
But if I were you I would dump the xD card and get a SD card instead. They are much faster, much cheaper and more reliable.
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Old Nov 13, 2007, 7:45 PM   #3
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richy,

I agree with twister that you need to acquire a reader that can handle the newer xD card models. I would add, that you should buy the Type ‘H' cards, if you desire faster performance.

I must strongly disagree with the remainder of twister's reply,

"But if I were you I would dump the xD card and get a SD card instead. They are much faster, much cheaper and more reliable."

Twister,

Post a link to a professional review site that has timed the difference in performance between an xD card and an SD card in the S8000. Or any Fuji camera, for that matter. I have yet to see any. Here are a couple of comparisons between an xD and a CF card in the same Fuji camera:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilms3pro/page10.asp

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilms9000/page5.asp

In both of the links above, the xD card outperformed the CF card in the Fuji camera. Unless you can provide a link to a similar test, in which actual timings were made of both xD and SD cards in the S8000, and the SD card was proven faster than the xD card, I don't think you can say that the SD cards are "much faster".

Current price (today) on a good brand (Sandisk) from a reliable online dealer (Newegg) for a 2 GB SD and xD:

Sandisk Ultra II 2GB SD = $32.99

Sandisk Ultra III 2GB SD = $39.99

Sandisk Type M 2GB xD = $39.99

Much cheaper? Maybe on ebay, for a fake SD?

More reliable? Where did that fantasy come from? I've never had an xD failure...I don't know anyone else who has...do you? I know a whole bunch of people who have issues with SD cards.

Another xD basher?

the Hun




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Old Nov 13, 2007, 11:10 PM   #4
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rinniethehun wrote:
Quote:
richy,

I agree with twister that you need to acquire a reader that can handle the newer xD card models. I would add, that you should buy the Type ‘H' cards, if you desire faster performance
the Hun
Quote:
Thanks for your reply! Whenyou say the H card is faster..do you mean faster to shoot a picture or faster to download or both?


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Old Nov 14, 2007, 6:34 AM   #5
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richy,

Both the read and write speeds of the Type 'H' card are faster than either the standard xD and the Type 'M'. It won't necessarily take a picture 'faster', but it will record the picture on the card faster, therefore reducing the cycle time or time between pictures. You may not be able to notice it during casual shooting, but if you use continuous shooting or burst modes, you should see a difference. And, it should reduce the upload time into the computer by about 20%. Pick up a smaller capacity card and try it to see if it makes a noticeable difference in your camera. You could also try an SD card...

Let us know what you come up with.

the Hun

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Old Nov 14, 2007, 7:13 AM   #6
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@rinniethehun:

Speed:
The SanDisk Ultra II is twice as fast as Type H xD, the Extreme III is four times faster. These are just specs.
And this is what the package of my recently purchased Fuji Type H xD card says:
"This card may cause interruption of movie recording at 640x480 pixels mode."
And this is true, I'm getting a card error every time I record 640x480 movies with my Fuji F31fd.

Judging from the links you provided it seems that these cameras favor xD over other cards but that does not mean xD cards are actually faster.
I don't know how the S8000fd handles SD(HC) cards.

For downloading photos to the PC the SD cards are usually 2 to 4 times faster than xD cards.

Price:
Where I live xD cards are about two times more expensive than SD cards (for example $24 for SanDisk Ultra II 2GB and $47 for Fuji Type H 2GB.
Other brands (Lexar, Transcend,...) are even cheaper.
I can get a fast 4GB SDHC card for the price of a slow 2GB xD card.

Reliability:
In the forums I visit regulary I see more problems with xD cards than with other cards. But this is of course very subjective.


I have four cameras which use a different card format (SD, CF, MS and xD) and yes, I dislike xD because I know how it compares to the other formats. :-)
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Old Nov 14, 2007, 10:38 AM   #7
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twister said...

"These are just specs."

Exactly - just specs! Specs have little or nothing to do with real world performance. Each device is different, and performance varies enormously between devices.

"Judging from the links you provided it seems that these cameras favor xD over other cards but that does not mean xD cards are actually faster."

Well, what does it mean? It certainly does mean that xD cards are faster - in those two cameras. That was the point I was trying to make...even though independent laboratory tests claim that the SD is faster than the xD, what does it matter if that doesn't hold true in your camera? You're going to run out and buy an SD card, which is actually slower in your camera? Why, because the laboratory said SD cards are faster?

The OP has an S8000...you tell him to throw his xD card in the garbage and buy an SD card, because the SD is faster, cheaper, and more reliable...correction...much faster, much cheaper, and more reliable. Yet, you have yet to provide a single shred of proof to back up your claims.

"I don't know how the S8000fd handles SD(HC) cards."

That's right - you don't know. I don't either - but I'm not about to tell someone to use SD cards because they're faster.

"I can get a fast 4GB SDHC card for the price of a slow 2GB xD card."

I don't know where you live, but I found the following prices today on amazon.com:

Fujifilm 2GB Type M xD = $36.88 4GB

Sandisk 4GB Ultra II SD = $52.99
Lexar 4GB 133x SD = $72.75

"For downloading photos to the PC the SD cards are usually 2 to 4 times faster than xD cards."

Here are some download speeds for a few cameras, all tested by the same professional reviewer, utilizing the same methods and criteria:

xD cards

Fuji F30 (F31 not tested) = 1164 Kbytes/sec
Fuji S6000 = 1258 Kbytes/sec
Olympus SP 550 = 989 KBytes/sec

SD cards

Nikon D40 = 2153 Kbytes/sec
Canon XTI = 1165 Kbytes/sec
Panasonic FZ8 = 721 Kbytes/sec

Don't see the huge margin you're claiming.

Regarding your difficulties with video, that is the first time I've heard of any issues with Type H cards and video. There were some compatibility issues with Type M cards and certain cameras regarding video, but not Type H. It's been awhile since I've bought an xD, but I don't recall seeing that warning on any of the packaging (either M or H).

Now I'm sure we can all do an online search, and find a more expensive xD card, and a cheaper SD card, and a faster or slower download speed, or somebody who has had a problem with xD cards or SD cards. However, we should all refrain from making recommendations based on personal feelings, unless the recommendation is qualified as such.

"...and yes, I dislike xD..."

Case closed.

The Hun



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Old Nov 16, 2007, 9:12 AM   #8
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It is probbaly not that the card reader can't read M cards but that it can't reader 2GB xD cards. I had a similar issue a while back when I got my first 1GB xD card and it would not read it but the same card reader would read my 512MB xD card. Some card readers aren't compatable with the newer larger cards. My advise would be

1.) Get a new card reader. I got one in March from Sams Club that reads just about every card around in all sizes. It was $14.99. I went back and got a second one. One for use at home and one in my laptop bag that way I ALWAYS have one where I need it.

2.) Try uploading it via USB cable fromthe camera to the computer to make sure thr card is not bad

3.) Get an H series card if and when you can. The H series cardsare faster at least in my Fuji S-9100 shot to shot and also uiploading time is faster as well. The 40 shot burst mode writes faster to the card with a H series card than an M series card. Also when I shoot 9 mega-pixel images it takes almost 1 second less to write the image than with an M series card

dave
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Old Nov 19, 2007, 9:51 AM   #9
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@rinniethehun:
You are right about the performance of xD cards in cameras. They can perform faster than SD if the camera's manufacturer decided to favor xD cards.
That's a marketing choice. A very bad one because it cripples the camera.
Camera manufacturers can promote high burst shooting modes, high quality video, etc. For cameras with xD cards this is much more difficult because of the low speed of these cards.

Just read these comments:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olym...50uz/page5.asp
The other problem - seemingly common to all xD based cameras - is the speed of writing to the card and buffering problems, which produce a painful shot to shot time of just under 4 seconds (and occasionally mean you can't take a picture because the buffer is full).
File writing - even with the supposedly high speed 'H' cards - is a little pedestrian, and the long shot-to-shot times put a limit on the usefulness of RAW for a lot of real-world photography.

The main competitor of the S8000fd is the Panasonic FZ18. This camera reaches write speeds of 5,4 MB/s. There's no way you can get such speeds with xD cards.

The download speeds you show are from cameras which are usually much slower than card readers, especially cameras with a USB 1.0 connection.
With a card reader the maximum download speed is 6.5 MB/s for xD (Type H) and 20 MB/s for SD(HC). That's more than three times faster.

Check the prices on Newegg: $33.5 for a slow 2GB xD card, $24 for a faster 4GB SDHC.

So if the camera performs equally well (or better) with SD(HC) then I don't see any reason why a xD card should be considered.
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Old Nov 21, 2007, 8:19 PM   #10
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Twister,

How did you manage to corrupt a thread about a card reader that couldn't read a Type ‘M', xD card, to a comparison (if you can call it that) between an Olympus camera and a Panasonic camera?

"...the Panasonic FZ18. This camera reaches write speeds of 5,4 MB/s."

I guess you're attempting to convince me that SD cards are faster than xD cards by comparing cameras that only utilize a single media type. I never said SD cards weren't faster. What I said was, "Post a link to a professional review site that has timed the difference in performance between an xD card and an SD card in the S8000. Or any Fuji camera, for that matter."

I'm still waiting.

" There's no way you can get such speeds with xD cards."

You're right - the maximum theoretical write speed of a Type ‘H' xD card is 4.0MB/sec.

"Check the prices on Newegg: $33.5 for a slow 2GB xD card, $24 for a faster 4GB SDHC."

Check the review you took your information from - the FZ18 achieved that write speed with a 1GB Sandisk Extreme III card...currently selling for $35.99 at Newegg - the 4GB Extreme III is just a little bit more than that. Don't try to make us believe that for $24 you can buy a fast SD card...all SD cards are not created equal.

"The download speeds you show are from cameras which are usually much slower than card readers, especially cameras with a USB 1.0 connection."

This is what you said:

"For downloading photos to the PC the SD cards are usually 2 to 4 times faster than xD cards."

This was my reply:

"Here are some download speeds for a few cameras, all tested by the same professional reviewer, utilizing the same methods and criteria:

xD cards

Fuji F30 (F31 not tested) = 1164 Kbytes/sec
Fuji S6000 = 1258 Kbytes/sec
Olympus SP 550 = 989 KBytes/sec

SD cards

Nikon D40 = 2153 Kbytes/sec
Canon XTI = 1165 Kbytes/sec
Panasonic FZ8 = 721 Kbytes/sec"

Which one of those cameras has a USB 1.0 connection? Did you say anything about card readers?

"With a card reader the maximum download speed is 6.5 MB/s for xD (Type H) and 20 MB/s for SD(HC). That's more than three times faster."

Depends on the SD card and the card reader...

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/no_...?cid=6007-8472

"So if the camera performs equally well (or better) with SD(HC) then I don't see any reason why a xD card should be considered."

Great conclusion...well, does it?

The Hun





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