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Old Jan 15, 2005, 12:54 AM   #31
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Quote:
My Model number shows

HMS360404D5CF00

P/N 13G1766

Is this drive compatible with a rebel or is this one of the newer drives - it was pulled from an MP3 player, but not sure how new the model was.
I have a microdrive with this model and part number. It works fine in a 300D,a 20D, and a Verbatim card reader.

The part number ending in 68, if I recall correctly, is from an iPod and is limited so that it cannot be used in cameras. Hitachi support cannot do anything about this reasonably -- those card were restriced during manufacturing; it would make no sense for them to spend money undoing that, if it is even possible.

Current retail Hitachis should be safe & affordable options.
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Old Mar 31, 2005, 2:31 PM   #32
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:roll:I have the exact same card number and I cant get it to format in my 20 D or

computer or HP card reader.

I am using Windows XP Home Edition.

But my friend can format it using his computer.

I notice your Verbatim card reader works is this worth the purchase and if it does should it be formatted using Fat 32 or Fat.

I would appreciate any help on this matter.
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Old Apr 22, 2005, 10:58 PM   #33
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Hopefully by now a few clued up people have dug and found an answer to my problem:
I have bought a brand new hitachi MD - still in it's factory sealed anti-static envelope. Not from a mp3 player.
The model number is: HMS360404D5CF00 and the part number is: 13G1766.
I tried to format in my D70 and no go. Then on my pc-xphe and still no go.
Please, does someone know if I've been ripped off or if there is a way to get this to work? Tks
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Old Jun 16, 2005, 5:51 PM   #34
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Ok folks, here's some answers.

FAT16 vs. FAT32 is a separate issue. Sure, you may have problems if you plug
a microdrive or CF card formatted as FAT32 into a camera that can only handle
FAT16.

But the iPOD Mini disk issue(s) are different, and are at the hardware interface
level...

Most all CF storage cards/HDDs support several styles of interface: 'TrueIDE'
(essentially just like an IDE hard drive but different connector) and 'CF mode'.
[Sometimes TrueIDE mode is called TrueATA mode.]

CF mode is essentially subset of the older, now-superseded "PCCard" standard.

But it is possible (but rare) for a device to be in a CF form factor but not run
in a CF mode - in this case, the iPod mini Hitachi HDDs. These drives are
also not marked with the "CF" logo (unlike consumer-available Hitachi CF HDDs).

[The new successor to CF mode, "CF+" is similar, but has TrueIDE mode support
as an option and is not mandatory (unlike orig. CF mode, which mandated the
support of TrueIDE).]

These IDE vs. CF interfaces are different in electrical signalling, and the support
firmware needed to 'talk' with these devices must differ for these various modes.

For storage cards, CF mode allows the disk's 'taskfile' (IDE control/command
registers) to be accessed in either Memory-mapped or I/O-mapped modes:
this latter I/O-mapped mode can be in 'Contiguous 16' mode or a Primary +
Secondary taskfile mapped mode.

All these modes have similarities - to programmers, there's not huge differences
between these. (Kinda like walking into your living room thru any of four different
doors: you still end up in your living room.) But things are arranged/wired/timed
a bit differently amongst these modes, and they are not interchangeable. A card
or Microdrive that can run in only one mode cannot be accessed if the driving
hardware can only run in one of the other modes.

A couple of things to know:

- A plain PC IDE port run to a CF connector (like those older PCCard adapters
having no ICs, just a 40pin cable to a PCB connector) can't talk to a CF device
if that device only runs in a CF mode. This setup can only run the CF card
in TrueIDE mode. So it's entirely logical that an iPOD Mini 4GB drive reads,
writes and formats just fine on a PC but will not work in a camera (which
does not use TrueIDE mode).

- There's no telling how a PC's USB-based CF card reader will access a
CF memory card or a CF microdrive. It might try IDE or CF modes, or
only one. This could be a hardware issue (internal wiring ), issue w/
internal firmware inside the USB card reader chip, and/or the Windows
or Linux driver on the PC.

Thus, some USB readers may be able to read an iPOD Mini microdrive (non
-CF), (because they run reader in TrueIDE mode) while other readers
cannot because they always try to run the CF device in CF mode.

- if camera's firmware can only run the CF slot in one mode and that mode
is not supported by the CF card, you ain't gonna talk to the device.

- it takes a tad of firmware to configure a CF slot in any of these modes;
the hardware just doesn't do its thing miraculously;

- it appears many digital cameras apparently talk to CF memory/HDD cards
in a CF mode and not in "TrueIDE" mode;

- from some very quick experimentation on a test bed, the Apple iPOD Mini
4GB drive
from Hitachi apparently DOES NOT support _ANY_ CF mode
and is a TrueIDE-only device. (thus explaining there's no CF logo!!!)
This was apparently a cost-down effort; saves some support, testing,
wiring, EMI/RFI issues, etc. (TrueIDE mode requires under 40 pins as
opposed to 50 pins on CF..)

I dunno about the newer 6GB drive but I suspect it's similar.


Anyway bottom-line: unless your digital camera CF slot works in TrueIDE mode, it
will not be able to deal w/a Microdrive taken from an iPOD Mini.



Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA USA






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Old Jun 16, 2005, 6:43 PM   #35
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Tks for this info Bill. Now, 'TrueIDE mode' cameras are the only ones that's work for these OEM Hitachi 4GB MD's with13G1766 part numbers. Or at least, that's what I'm taking from your informative reply. Well, the question then is, what cameras are they? I have heard a whisper the Sony DC's will and if so, then those are the camera owners I need to find to sell my 4GB MD to . It's such a pain, b/c I am able to buy the TrueIDE mode 4GB MD's for US$100 but they are not allot of good to me in my DC (as I found out) .
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Old Jun 16, 2005, 8:41 PM   #36
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Hi, Lossed...

Well, pin 9 on a CF card is the /OE (CF mode) or /ATA_SEL (TrueIDE)
signal.

If this signal is grounded when the CF card is powered up and
continues to stay grounded, the CF slot is running the card in
TrueIDE mode.

If this pin is normally high but has activity on it, it's serving, if I
recall correctly, as an output enable line for every read access
cycle to CF card (in CF memory mapped mode).

So you could poke around cameras that way....


Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA USA

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Old Jun 16, 2005, 9:15 PM   #37
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Found a long lost, but now, new best friend with a sony f828 and i have sent them my MD to try and will get back to you with the results. Maybe other sony dc owners can offer any examples where they have been able to use these particular part numbered MD's. A longshot I know but I hate wasting $ on things I can't use. Should have done more reading before buying the md I guess.
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Old Jun 18, 2005, 7:52 AM   #38
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I had a Hitachi 4GB Microdrive (not from an iPod)in my D70 and I ended up getting rid of it because it was very noticeably slower than a 1GB version. I mean it took at least twice as loing to save and review images on the D70. I wouldn't even consider one for my D2x!
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Old Jun 18, 2005, 1:20 PM   #39
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wingnut1 wrote:
Quote:
I had a Hitachi 4GB Microdrive (not from an iPod)in my D70 and I ended up getting rid of it because it was very noticeably slower than a 1GB version. I mean it took at least twice as loing to save and review images on the D70. I wouldn't even consider one for my D2x!
Wingnut1...

Well, I do know the 4GB Hitachi drive I played with could run all the
way up to TrueIDE UDMA mode 2. That's pretty fast, and way faster
than the camera can operate at if it were in True IDE mode.

However, the cameras may not be using the drives efficiently - at least
it appears so since I know Canon SLRs apparently only run in CF mode
only (a slower non-DMA PIO mode). Nikon likely similar. It does
surprise me that the 4GB would be slower than the 1GB for a given
mode.

But this is really the cameras' fault. The idea of not taking advantage
of TrueIDE's faster DMA modes (MDMA0...2, UDMA0...2 at least) is a
design flaw of Canon & Nikon (at least for D70).

I would encourage you to test the 1GB vs. 4GB Microdrive in the D2X.
Perhaps the D2X has better, more properly designed firmware that uses
the maximum transfer rate of the drive, in which case I'd believe the
4GB should be at least a tad faster.

Other dynamics could involve how the drive was in power-saving mode:
drives take time to 'spin up'. Even if it's a fast microdrive, spinning up for
each shot can be painful. If the cam software is intelligent enough to
keep the drive spinning after each shot so it's ready for followup shots,
that's the right way (along w/proper memory buffering of 1st/2nd shots).
But the cam. designers could be powering the drive up for each shot then
powering it down which is a lousy way of managing this - gives a tad more
battery life but overall not good design.

So much of this is NOT due to drive itself but camera hardware/firmware
design.

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA USA








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Old Jul 9, 2005, 1:43 PM   #40
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Just to update the topic a bit, I have access to one of these drives that end with 49D. Evidently, MAC or Hitachi didn't like the idea that these drives were being used outside of the iPods. The 49D model do not work in any PC. I have run a battery of tests on several different operating systems and PCMCIA interfaces (USB, Notebook, cardbus). None will access or format the microdrive. So if you are looking to use one of the salvaged iPod drives in a pc, make sure that the las three digits on the back of the drive not end in 49D or later.



This should be no surprise. Other MP3 player with similar storage devices changed their design to prevent non-intentioned use.
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