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Old Jul 12, 2004, 10:29 AM   #1
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I have a Kodak Easyshare DX4330 and two Sandisk SD memory cards. One card is 128 MB and is the one I use most of the time and the other is 256 MB which I use when I am pretty certain that 128 MB won't be enough for a single session.

A few days ago I took a few pictures and transferred them to the computer as usual using a card reader. Then when I put back the card in the camera it said that the card required formatting. I put it back in the card reader and the card was ok. back into the camera and the same error, so I went and formatted the card. Working fine so far.

I did not format or do anything unusual to the card. Just dumped the pictures into the computer and the program (cam2PC) deleted the files from the card. This is what I normally do (except with very important pictures when I delete from card AFTER I have verified all pictures are fine).

Then yesterday in a middle of an event I was taking pictures of, I got the same error but with the 256 MB card this time. I had about 50 pictures in there and two mini-videos. :sad: So I got the other card and put it in and kept shooting without problems.

Later back at home I put the 256 MB card in the reader and no go.:-?Couldn't read the card either. So I got one of those recovery programs (not free :sad and recovered all pictures from the card. Then I put the card back into the camera and formatted it.

I have been using this camera since December 2002 and is 7000 pictures old. The 128 MB card is about as old as the camera and I use it every time. The 256 MB card is a year old and does not get nearly as much use.

Could anything be wrong with the camera?

Before jumping to conclusions, here is how I handle pictures and memory cards. I put the card in reader and cam2PC downloads the pictures from the card. If the pictures are not very important I use "move" which copies to the hard disk and deletes from the card. If the pictures are important then I use copy and later delete everything either from Windows Explorer or using the camera itself. This is how I always handle pictures and never had a problem before.

Before this event I never formatted any of those memory cards - they worked in the camera right out of the box. Both worked perfectly before both with the camera and with the computer and I have used them for storage and transport of non-picture files.

I am not worried about the cards or how I use them, just that the camera may be corrupting the cards somehow.

On a side question.... I mentioned that I had two mini-videos and later that I recovered all pictures. I noticed after recovering that one picture was 20 MB in size. :OIt appears that both videos were somehow combined with the picture that was taken just before the videos. They were taken one after the other. The picture can be viewed without problems but the file size should be around 600 K and the videos never appeared in the recoverable file list. Is there a way to split these three files apart again?
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Old Jul 12, 2004, 12:13 PM   #2
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Yes it does sound like something is happening to the camera. I would do the obvious first.

Clean the contacts on the camera and cards.
Clean the battery contacts.

Change the battery.

Any of those could cause a weak write to the card that can glitch it.

After that you will probably need to return it for repair...

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As for recovering the video. Check www.nonags.com and pick up a hex editor program. This will allow you to search around the file for the beginning of the video. You will then be able to write it out.

1) Install a hex editor
2) Look at an existing (good) movie file and look for a word near the beginning of the file (QT, MOV, AVI, etc). Count how many bytes from the beginning the word exists.
3) Load up the combined file.
4) Search for the string you found in 2 then export the file starting at the real beginning of the file. Rename the file.

----------------------------------
Good luck..
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Old Jul 12, 2004, 12:19 PM   #3
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Well,personally, Ialways use the camera to perform any writes to the card (including erases). I've seen too many card corruption problems reported, when using a PC to "move" (copy and delete), or just plain delete photos from media.

Now, Sandisk "Standard" Secure Digital Cards in larger sizes are notoriously unreliable in some cameras. For example: Konica-Minolta had specific warnings listed about using these larger (>128mb) Sandisk cards in my model (Konica KD-510z) camera. They recommend Panasonic or Toshiba SD in 256mb size, and ONLY Panasonic in 512mb size. Although the Sandisk SD in smaller (<256mb) size seem to be OK in my camera model.
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Old Jul 12, 2004, 1:01 PM   #4
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P.S. - I have read posts from users indicatting that the use of Pansonic's SD formatter, improved the reliability of Sandisk's Standard Secure DigitalCards. However, I can't confirm this. See this link:

http://panasonic.jp/support/audio/sd...rmatter_e.html


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Old Jul 12, 2004, 1:26 PM   #5
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CastleDude wrote:
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Yes it does sound like something is happening to the camera. I would do the obvious first.

Clean the contacts on the camera and cards.
Clean the battery contacts.

Change the battery.

Any of those could cause a weak write to the card that can glitch it.
I just hope it won't happen again.

Cleaning the contacts in the camera is a bit hard and requires tearing the thing apart. I am the kind of person brave enough to tear apart most things but a camera is something I particularly stay away from in this sense. Too many delicate components to damage. Can the outer plastic shell be removed without actually disassembling anything?

I keep changing the batteries constantly. I have two pairs of NiMH rechargeable batteries that I use all the time.Ocassionally I drop in a pair of lithium batteries. But I will look at the battery contacts in the camera just in case. The camera is not showing any unusual behavior besides that.

Using a binary hex editor seems too much of a hassle to recover the videos. I don't think they are worth the trouble.

To the others, honestly I don't believe that writing with the computer has anything to do with it. SD cards are meant to be used in all kinds of devices, not just digital cameras. Two different cards showing the same problem at about the same time and both for the first time after at least a year of use cannot be related to writing in the computer.
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Old Jul 12, 2004, 1:44 PM   #6
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For cleaning the SD card slot they make a cleaner cards for the function. Something like the attached picture.

The reason for swapping batteries is that one of the cells may be dropping out on you so that glitches the card. You might want tomark your battery sets and see if there is any correlation with one set or another with problems.

Unfortunately an intermittant like this can be a beast to figure out, even for the factory.

The hex edit isn't that bad, just work on a backup if it works fine if it doesn't well you had a learning experience.


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Old Jul 12, 2004, 1:52 PM   #7
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luisr wrote:
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To the others, honestly I don't believe that writing with the computer has anything to do with it. SD cards are meant to be used in all kinds of devices, not just digital cameras. Two different cards showing the same problem at about the same time and both for the first time after at least a year of use cannot be related to writing in the computer.
I can only tell you that I've seen a much higher number of problems reported, when users write to the cards (as in using "Move" versus "Copy"). Steve (owner/editor of this site), also recommends you don't do it. See his post in this thread:

http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...151288#p151288

Theoritically, Windows is not supposed to cache writes (which can cause problems)to removable drives. However, the implementation of the device drivers by a particular manufacturer may be what's causing the problem.

In any event, I don't do it.

As far as using SD in other devices (for examle, Computers,) that's correct. However, even smaller SandiskSD cards, and users of other brands using Sandisk Components, seem to have a higher number of problems in other devices, too.

There are 3 major manufacturers of Secure Digital: Sandisk, Toshiba and Panasonic. If you are using a different brand of SD, it's probably using components from one of the "big 3". These 3 manufacturers jointly developed SD.

You can recognize Sandisk "Standard" (the slower cards)Secure Digital components,by the style of code used on the back of the card. It will look something like AR0212LR

Cards using Panasonic Components (i.e., Simpletech, some Lexar card in larger sizes) use a differenttype of code (longer). Although, I understand that the newer Sandisk Cards are much better, and you also have the new "Ultra II" series, which is highly rated.

Since you brought it up ("SD cards are meant to be used in all kinds of devices, not just digital cameras"), here is a list of reported problems with other devices using SD:

http://sdprob.aximsite.com/theproblemlist.htm

Also, keep in mind, that Memory Cells do fail over time in Flash Memory. The cards are supposed to automatically map out the bad memory cells as they occur (so that you don't even know about it). The card's proficiancy at doing this may also be a contributing factor to card reliability.


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Old Jul 12, 2004, 4:01 PM   #8
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Hello LuisR,

Sorry for your camera/card problems.

Here is a suggestion:

Always edit select all, edit COPY, edit paste photosto your hard drive.

Then, go back to media drive and try edit select all, delete.

Though I do not use SD, this has always worked for me with Smartmedia and Compact Flash.

Good luck
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Old Jul 12, 2004, 4:21 PM   #9
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JimC wrote:
Quote:
Theoritically, Windows is not supposed to cache writes (which can cause problems)to removable drives. However, the implementation of the device drivers by a particular manufacturer may be what's causing the problem.
It doesn't. I have checked this in the past and write-caching is disabled in removable drives.
Quote:
Also, keep in mind, that Memory Cells do fail over time in Flash Memory. The cards are supposed to automatically map out the bad memory cells as they occur (so that you don't even know about it). The card's proficiancy at doing this may also be a contributing factor to card reliability.
I performed a "surface" scan to both cards and both came out good with no errors. I used the disk scanning tool found in Windows XP.

Anyhow, I will keep an eye on this because I still believe there is something wrong with the camera (either card contacts or the battery thing), specially since the problem appeared in the middle of a session. The card was already some 20% full at the time and then the camera did not recognize it all of a sudden.



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Old Jul 12, 2004, 5:06 PM   #10
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When you have finished your transfer, do you "Eject" the card or just pull it out?
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