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Old Sep 23, 2003, 1:31 PM   #1
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Default Trouble! Canon 10D / Sony 828

Hi, I was decided to buy a Canon 10 D because I work in skin desease and i need to take good photogaphs (detail photographs of a hand p.e.) of my patients. But suddendly the new sony 828 is about to be released and it has 4 colour ccd/14 bits dxp and 8 mpixels, while the canon 10D only 6 mpixels.
Could anybody tell me which or the two will give me best accuracy, and best quality to print.
I appreciate your advise, thanks.
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Old Sep 23, 2003, 1:44 PM   #2
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I can't say anything about the Sony, as I haven't seen either the camera or a picture from it. I can say that I believe the 10D would do the job for you. You'll need a good macro lens and good lighting. You want the skin to look like skin, so using good lighting and then calibrating the camera to that lighting should work very well.

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Old Sep 23, 2003, 2:03 PM   #3
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You may want to consider a camera like the 4 Megapixel Nikon Coolpix 4500 too.

I think you'll find that 4 Megapixels is good enough for very large prints.

This Nikon has the best "out of the box" macro capability of any other current model digital camera, including other Nikon models.

This camera lets you "fill the frame" with an area as small as 0.7 inches, with virtually no distortion, and are able to focus from 2cm to infinity in macro mode.

So, if you compared it to a camera able to capture an area 2.1 inches across (typical for many digital camera's "macro modes'), you'd need 3 times the resolution to get an area as small (0.7 inches across) as the Nikon can capture with the same amount of detail.

Phil Askey tests macro performance in his camera reviews at dpreview.com. Here's the page showing the macro performance of the Coolpix 4500:


You can also get the optional SL-1 Cool-Light (which screws onto the front of the lens, illuminating your subject with a circle of white LED's. This eliminates the lighting problems you have with many other macro solutions. This light is available for well under $100.00 from most dealers.

Phil has a photo on this review page, with the SL-1 Cool-Light attached to a 4500:


Also, this particular Nikon camera has less chromatic aberrations (purple fringing) compared to other cameras in it's class. Nikon finally "got it right" with the lens/ccd combination used in the CP 4500.

The list price for this camera is currently $699.00, but after the $200.00 mail in rebate (good until Sept. 30), the price would be only $499.00 (not including any discounts you may find from the dealer). Make sure that you buy from a reputable dealer, not a dealer selling "gray market" cameras (cameras not intended for the U.S. Market), which Nikon USA will not warranty.

Here is the download link for the rebate form (requires Adobe Acrobat Reader):


BTW, you can also buy this camera in refurbished condition, directly from Nikon for only $369.99 now. You can still place your order if it's temporarily out of stock. They will not charge your credit card until it ships, and will ship the camera out as soon as it becomes available. Here's the link:

http://www.nikonmall.com/searchresults.asp?dept_id=14&searchcat=Digital+Ima ging+Products>&searchcatid=3

BTW, I once purchased a remanufactured camera directly from Nikon. It arrived in perfect, like new condition. I was unable to tell it from a new camera in any way, even upon very close inspection.

So, I have no problems with trusting a remanufactured model from Nikon.

Also, these cameras do come with a 90 day warranty, and with most electronics, they are most likely to fail immediately (faulty components, etc.), versus later (except after heavy use of course, when switches, etc., begin to show wear).

Most of the time, a remanufactured camera comes into being, just because somebody bought a model and changed their mind. So, it's sent back to the manufacturer for testing and repackaging.

I look at it as being potentially more reliable -- since it was inspected once when manufacturered, and again (probably more thoroughly) when shipped back -- just to make sure no problems existed with it.

So, I would actually prefer a remanufactured camera from Nikon, if a model that I am interested in was available this way -- not only for the cost savings, but because I would trust it more than a brand new one.
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Old Sep 23, 2003, 3:10 PM   #4
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Don't make the mistake of just counting the pixels. There is a lot more to good color reproduction than the number of pixels in the imager. You also need to consider the physical size of the imager and in this case - bigger is better.

Consumer digicam 3-megapixel imager (on the left), Canon D30 3.25-megapixel imager (on the right). The larger imager has larger pixels and this equates to better dynamic range, less adjacent pixel blooming, lower signal to noise ratio ... the bottom line is better image quality.

Compare the size of the 11-megapixel, 6-megapixel and 3-megapixel image sensors.

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Old Sep 23, 2003, 7:56 PM   #5
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Hi Steve, Webmaster

First, I looked in your dictionary at:


But I could not find "pixel blooming" there.

Can you please explain this phenomenona and perhaps add
to your dictionary?

Thanks much!

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Old Sep 24, 2003, 1:00 AM   #6
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Since the new Sony has yet to be tested, it would be wrong to make too many assumptions - but the thing you must first consider is overall versatility. The dSLR's are just more versatile simply because they allow a much larger selection of peripherals.

Lots of possibilities exist for excellent macro and for color accuracy and with fixed and carefully controlled lighting nearly any digicam could give excellent results in this case. But when you buy a digital SLR you are buying more than just the camera itself, you are buying into a "system."

My gut tells me that the 10D will probably out-perform the new Sony regardless of the differences in pixel count. It will have lower noise and with the wide lens selection will be an excellent performer. The only significant advantage I see with the smaller sensor in the Sony would be the increased depth of field for macro shots of a nature which really need this. How the 4 color sensor will perform in terms of color accuracy is yet to be determined.

As someone who owns way too many of these tools, I can tell you that the dSLR's consistently out-perform (I have 5 of these presently ranging from three to eleven megapixels) my digicams (24 presently representing all "major" manufacturers).

For pure macro power and hand held ease I prefer my CP4500 or C990 Nikon. For the incredible flat field and quality I prefer using my Canon 100mm F2.8 macro lens with any of my Canon dSLR's, but for extremely close work a tripod is highly recommended. With the little Nikon and the greatly enhanced depth of field, it's less necessary.

Why not wait until Steve reviews the new Sony to make a choice?

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Old Sep 24, 2003, 9:26 AM   #7
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Default In conclusion...

Thanks friends,
Ive read all the replys, and allthough I dont understand lots of the tecnicisms I can conclude that for general purpose (photos to the kids, travelling etc) the Canon D10 has a better imager than the new sony 828, eventhough it has only 6 mpixels. And I see also, that is wrong to say that more pixels equals best quality.
So the best image, and more neat will be the canon, no matter we should wait for the steve test.
Do you agree?
Thanks once more.
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